Cornucopia

Six Degrees of Times and Seasons

by  •  • 301 Comments

In a prior thread, Aaron suggested that we make a blogger family tree and Bryce gave his own information. It’s a fun question — who knows who, and how, outside of the loose cluster of LDS blogs that we call the bloggernacle?

I’m not particularly well-connected, I think. I went to law school with Greg Call and Steve Evans and Christina Taber (all bloggers), among others. I’m in the same ward as Logan and Amy Bobo. I was previously in the same ward as Greg and Cirila, Steve and Sumer, as well as D. Fletcher, Jim Lucas, the Bushmans, and a whole host of other people (some of whom occasionally drop by to comment here). Finally, Janelle from Let Your Mind Alone works right around the corner from me.

As far as relatives, I can’t offer much. I’m a second-generation member myself, and my family isn’t related to anyone. My wife does have about a million relatives in Arizona (she’s related to Joneses, Johnsons, Bunkers, and a bunch of the big Mormon clans), so she’s probably a third-cousin or so of Adam, but didn’t know him prior to blogging (there’s really no way to keep track of all of her cousins, and she only knows a small percentage of them). Surprisingly, none of the relatives or neighbors who she actually knows (quite a few, really) are bloggernacle participants.

And that’s my data point. Let the games begin!

301 comments for “Six Degrees of Times and Seasons”

  7. Logan Bobo and I grew up together (at least starting around age 14 or so), and I knew his wife Amy before he did (not that that has any relevance to the conversation, but it somehow makes me feel special :-)). The only other blogger I think I’ve met in person is Ben Huff, whose brother married my sister.

  9. I went to law school with Matt. I have had classes from Jim. I once stayed the night on Adam’s couch in South Bend. I have had dinner with Kaimi (he has a much larger neck than I expected). I used to live in the same state with Russell, but we’ve never met. Kristine’s younger sister once baby sat my son, and I know her younger brother through my wife who is D. Fletcher’s first cousin. Susan Staker (former guest blogger) is my mother, and Taylor Petrey (former guest blogger) is a good friend from the Cambridge, Massachusetts ward. I had a freshman philosophy class with Frank McIntyre (guest blogger). I once attended an academic conference where Gordon Smith gave a paper, but we didn’t meet.

  11. The Fox and the Clifton families are both former (and current) residents of Spokane, WA (specifically the Spokane valley); while Rusty (of Nine Moons) and I were never friends, as he’s about eight years younger than I, we were all in the same ward for a while and knew each other pretty well; when I was 14, I had a home teaching route with his father Don (also of Nine Moons).

    I took my first class from my fellow T&S blogger Jim Faulconer when I was a sophomore at BYU; I ended up taking four classes from him all together. My grades were an A, a D (a very bad semester; don’t ask), a B, and an A. Former T&S guest-blogger Fred Gedicks sat in on two of those classes. Jim and I have continued to bump into each other and catch up here and there over the years.

    It is possible that Nate Oman and I met back or at least crossed paths in the Maeser Building back in 1993, but neither of us can confirm this. As he mentioned, he lived in Little Rock for a year, but we never got together. But we’ll be on a panel together at a conference in New Orleans next January.

    For the life of me, I can’t think of any other possible connection with anybody. My mother’s parents are the Jolleys of Vernal, UT; Melissa’s family lives in Michigan, but she has grandparents (the Harrises) from Evanston, WY. My dad’s father was a convert, but his mother was a Young by way of Cardston, Alberta. I attended the Alexandria singles ward back in the summer 1993; there might be some cross-over with someone there. We have some old friends who recently moved to the NYC area, but they aren’t bloggers, and probably none of you would know them anyway. I don’t know NYC or the Cambridge/Boston area at all.

  12. I used to practice law with Bryce’s father. Greg and Cirila used to be in my ward. I sang in a choir that was accompanied by D. Fletcher, and met him at my ward when the bishop, his niece’s husband, blessed their baby. I know the Bushman’s, and Jim Lucas. I knew Rosalynde Welch’s parents before they were married, and thought her mother was drop dead gorgeous. I met someone named Haglund once, who is a descendant of the ur-Haglund of them all, Hakon, whose picture is in a Brooklyn Ward history book that I borrowed from the church library because I wasn’t sure they’d take good care of it.

    I never had a class from Jim F., but I did have one from David Paulsen, who gave me the worst grade I’d ever had since seventh grade art, and Cody Carter was in my ward when I was a kid. (I know, this is stretching it.)

    I’ve never met Adam, but my grandmother was born in Nutrioso, Arizona.

  13. Along with the Columbia/Manhattan First Ward connections mentioned by Kaimi, I was Mark B.’s hometeacher and Mets co-commisserator for a time, and we were both in the same ward as Chris Williams of “Outer Boroughs.” I took Heidegger from Jim F., and was roommates with Eric D. Snider (who has only posted a few times, but is linked in the sidebar). Further back, I went to high school with Karen Hall (we were in Ms. Spackman’s English class together.)
    And I suspect I go to church every week in the same building as William Morris, but we’ve never met.

  14. Julie, you don’t need a prize! The fact that you’ve never met anyone here is its own reward. :-)

  17. How about this: I’ve seen Nate Oman in person, in the Arlington Ward, but not been introduced. I’ve played multiple quiz bowl intramural games games that were moderated by Bryce Inouye, we never spoke. Finally, I work at the same small Salt Lake Law firm that employs former guest blogger Fred Gedicks, but have never met the man.

    That beats Julie for sure. It’s one thing never to have come into any contact with these people, and entirely another thing to consistently escape un-touched from circumstances where it appears one has no choice but to meet a fellow bloggernackler. Points should be awarded for such skillfull futility.*

    *penalty for having met Rosalynde (Frandsen) Welch, one of the rock-solid sisters of the Porto, Portugal Mission. Also, I have won many wrestling bouts against another blogger, Davis Bell, and starred in many family room plays directed by another blogger, Braden Bell. sigh.

  18. My sister — Sarah Oman (now Jacobsen) — served in the Porto Portugal mission.

    Also, I should have mentioned that I also went to law school with Karen Hall.

  19. Nate wrote, I once stayed the night on Adam’s couch in South Bend.

    As to the permanent bloggers here, I can only say that I met both Nate and Adam briefly on the morning after Nate spent that night at Adam’s in South Bend (I stayed in the old monastery dorms that night).

    Kaimi wrote, I’m not particularly well-connected, I think.

    Surely this was a typo? Didn’t you mean “I’m particularly well-connected” as the subsequent list of relationships suggests?

    I would love to meet the other permanent bloggers here. I know several of the commenters (e.g. Jordan Fowles is my brother, surprise surprise), but that is about it.

  21. I haven’t met anybody in the Bloggernacle, but my electronic fingerprints are all over Mormon-related Web forums, blogs and discussion groups.

    And I do indeed attend church in the same building as Greg, but we’ve never met.

    Are you still in young men’s, Greg? I don’t get to talk to Ian much now that he’s with the young men so maybe I’ll wander down the hall sometime soon and introduce myself. [My ward and Greg’s branch share young women/young men and primary because there are so few families with children/teenagers in Oakland].

  22. Rosalynde (Frandsen) Welch??

    Is that the same Rosalynde Frandsen that I went hiking with up Bridal Veil Falls many, many moons ago? I wonder. Wow…

  24. I know Karen Hall from BYU and again from law school–she introduced me to Aaron Brown when I was deciding where to attend but he had graduated by the time I arrived. I know Nate Oman, Matt Evans and Jared Jensen from law school and Taylor Petrey from Cambridge 1st Ward. In the blogger-productive Manhattan 1st Ward I met the Bushmans, D. Fletcher, Michelle Mumford (of Ms. Morality fame) and Jim Lucas and often socialized with super couples Steve and Sumer Evans and Christina and Manahi Taber-Kewene. Jim F. surely doesn’t recall it, but he was part of the committee when I defended my honors thesis at BYU (where he shellacked me with some difficult questions that exposed flaws in my overly-ambitious paper). And I am married to very-occassional commenter Gigi Chang Parke.

  25. I went to law school with Matt Evans and Karen Hall. (Matt Evans also was present for what was probably my all time best oral performance (gauging by audience reaction) of my most infamous missionary story, in a pizzeria in Santiago, Chile. Long story…)

    I graduated from law school right before Nate Oman enrolled, so he and I have never met. Based on something Nate has said elsewhere, I may have worked at BYU Studies at the same time, or almost the same time, as he did; however, I doubt we met as I was not much of a presence there (just doing some occasional gruntwork/editing during the summer to pad my resume).

    I once took a class from Jim Faulconer (in 1997 I think), but I suspect he won’t remember me, as it was during my “I-have-chemical-depression-so-I-think-I’ll-experiment-with-Pr*zac-and-other-fun-drugs� semester. I probably showed up three times at most and turned in everything late. Not being a philosophy student, I was just there to fill my time with another fun Honors Program elective. I’m sure it was a great class, but I really can’t tell you for sure. :)

    Remember the prolific T&S commenter “Brent�? He and I figured out we were in the same mission in Argentina and on the same I.R. student journal at BYU together, but we didn’t know each other well. (Whatever happened to Brent, anyway?)

    Although we never met, I remember reading and enjoying Russell Fox’s Student Review/Daily Universe writings in 1993, after I returned to BYU from my mission. Also, I think I knew his wife, Melissa Madsen, pretty well as a Freshman, if memory serves…

    Who am I forgetting?

    Aaron B

  26. Steve, it couldn’t possibly be me, since I am not nearly old enough to have done *anything* many, many moons ago. ;) But if said hike occurred around, say, 1994 or so–it’s possible. I have a really, really bad memory for relationships and situations–but are you the Steve who was in Penny Bird’s 252 (critical theories) English class with Shannon Keeley and me and who was involved, unwittingly perhaps, in the notorious love tetrahedron?

    I’m fairly connected, as it turns out, although not by respectable academic means. John Fowles in my brother-in-law, and he first introduced me to T&S (since you didn’t mention it, John, I hope I haven’t outed you prematurely). Ryan Bell was AP in my mission, as mentioned above, and I take full credit for having turned him on to Mormon thought by once giving him a FARMS article I happened to have handy. I was roommates with both Jim F’s daughter Beckie and Nate’s sister Lisa (I’m pretty sure about this–if you have no sister named Lisa, Nate, then I’m delusional). I also seem to have oblique connections with Mark B., possibly Steve Evans, and, I suspect, Bryce Inouye.

  27. Number of +’s = degree of acquaintance/interaction

    Lyle Stamps (+)
    John Fowles (++) and his wife Allison (++++) and her parents (+)
    Bob Caswell’s sister (++++) and her husband, Ben Huff’s brother (++++)
    Ben Huff (+++)
    Dan Peterson (+++)
    Jim Faulconer’s son Matt (+)
    Ben Spackman (++) and his wife (+++) and his sister (+++) and her husband (+++)
    Adam Greenwood looks very familiar

    As this thread continues I’m sure that I will discover more…

  28. Rosalynde —

    I answered your question in the other thread, but since the info seems to live here, Ron Frandsen is my uncle (he is married to my mother’s sister) and my wife’s cousin (they are both great-grandchildren of Ferdinand Friis Hintze).

    Is Ron your brother?

  29. Rosalynde asks Steve:

    are you the Steve who was in Penny Bird’s 252 (critical theories) English class with Shannon Keeley and me and who was involved, unwittingly perhaps, in the notorious love tetrahedron?

    Oooh! A love tertrahedron! Feel free to elaborate. I’m always ready to hear gossip about love tetrahedra (and “notorious” ones sound especially interesting), particularly when they involve one or more people who I actually know.

  30. “Although we never met, I remember reading and enjoying Russell Fox’s Student Review/Daily Universe writings in 1993, after I returned to BYU from my mission.”

    It would’ve been Student Review stuff, as I was fired by the Daily Universe before the end of fall semester 1992. (That was the semester of the aforementioned “D” in Jim’s class.) But I was all over the Daily Universe in the months leading up to that. Glad you remember it, anyway.

    “Also, I think I knew his wife, Melissa Madsen, pretty well as a Freshman, if memory serves….”

    Helaman Halls, 1990? That’s when she was there. No need to be vague about how you knew her, Aaron; I know all about her past. It’s out of her system now though. Well, mostly.

  31. Good Lord, it IS Rosalynde. Yes, I was the one in the tetrahedron. “Unwittingly” is probably the best way to describe my involvement, though Shannon would probably take a different view. Wow, I’d forgotten all about Penny Bird, but that was a pretty fun class. Good times all around, I must say, from that period. My salad days, as it were.

    Wow, how ya been? Married beneath yourself, I see — those no good, lowlife Welches!

    I should blog about the Tetrahedron one of these days. That was a really messed-up (but in retrospect, hilarious) time. All I have to show for it today is a Cat Stevens CD from Shannon.

  32. Bryce, okay so that’s the connection! Ron is my uncle too, my dad’s brother, so we share cousins. We may have met at one of Ron’s annual birthday parties–I knew the name was familiar. And I believe that my little sister may be writing your little brother on his mission (if you have a little brother on a mission, that is–I may have things mixed up here).

    Kaimi, as for the love tetrahedron, perhaps I should try to ascertain Steve’s identity before publicly embarrassing him. (Actually, he has nothing to be embarrassed about–I think he was largely unaware of the agonies of personal drama swirling around him–if it *was* him at all!)

  33. Steve, we posted at the same time. Now I will feel free to blog about your swath-like path of exploits through the English department… Actually, I think you functioned mostly as a medium for Shannon and me to express our competitive/intimate homosocial relationship (not to mention our little contest over Brian). The three of us are still quite close–Shannon and I have resolved our issues, Brian and I have come to an equilibrium, and Shannon and Brian seem to be doing great (you knew they married each other, right?). Yes, I’m married to one of those Welches (and mother to the seventh John Welch).

    Your online persona is so different from what I remember in college! Just like John Fowles’ online persona is so different from his personal affect (but again, I don’t want to out the real John Fowles without his consent!) It makes me wonder how I must come across in pixels.

  34. They married each other? Great! I’m glad it worked out for them, despite our influence. As for your homosocial relationship, I think that’s fantastic, and once John Kerry is president those relationships will only become stronger.

    How is my online persona different? Please describe. I like to think that I’m just as abrasive, immature and insulting in real life.

  35. I thought that the Steve Evans I know and the bloggernacle Steve Evans were the same person–but this clearly isn’t the case. The Steve Evans I know could never have a swath-like path of exploits.

  36. I actually think that I was in the same freshman ward with Shannon Keely, where she roped me into doing a lip-sinc of “Summer Lovin'” from Grease. As I recall, I came up with some excuse to avoid total public humiliation in the end. Said Shannon stopped writing me on my mission about fall of 1994, which apparently can be explained now by Steve Evans (and the mysterious Brian).

    Rosalynde, which of Lisa’s various pads did you inhabit? We may have met, as I used to hang out a fair amount at Lisa’s apartment (which was much nicer than mine) in fall of 1997, although I can’t remember the names of any of her roommates.

  37. I’ve met in a variety of settings guest bloggers James Siebach, Richard Bushman, Royal Skousen, Fred Gedicks, Dan Peterson (whom I once introduced at a lecture at BYU-Hawaii) and Ben Huff.

    Brandie Siegfried and I were in grad school, in the same ward for a bit, and we hiked Timpanogos (Brandie’s younger sister was also in my Gospel and World Religions course).

    Rosalynde Frandsen Welch (a frequent contributor here) was in my Honors Intensive writing course her Freshman year, though she already wrote exceptionally well and so my help to her was minimal. Some of you may have heard Rosalynde speak at commencement at BYU (though I don’t remember the exact year).

    I had lunch with Clark Goble (super-blogger) at a Mexican restaurant in Springville at a gathering for LDS-Phil people.

    I met Nate Oman at BYU when he gave a prayer at a lecture by Stephen Davis of Claremont (and perhaps at a lunch with Cole Durham?). I may have been in a philosophy class with Greg Call (Kierkegaard with Paulsen and Pojman perhaps?).

    Russell Fox was in an MA program with my wife. At a gathering of those graduate students, Russell and his wife won trivial pursuit over everyone else, though I left feeling satisfied that my wife and I had come in a close second against this guy who seemed to have everything stored in his mind.

    I had classes from Jim Faulconer, of course, and many associations since. I’ve had lunch three or four times with Jim through the years (one at a Chinese/Vietnamese restaurant which had great spring rolls and the best hot and sour soup I’ve ever had—changed owners unfortunately).

  38. I know Matt Parke and Gigi Chang from law school, as well. And Jared Jensen. And I had a class from Dan Petersen in college, who also turned out to be the former roomate of my step-mother’s ex-husband.

    Assuming that Rosalynde is somehow linked in with Jack Welch, then I can also claim a partial connection as I worked for Jack at BYU Studies, and he is a long-time friend of my father. I also once had dinner with Richard Bushman in Salt Lake. And lunch with Fred Geddicks in Provo.

  39. I concur with Keith’s comments; Rosalynde has always been an exceptional writer. That is how I first got my crush on her, back in the day….. *sigh*.

    Sorry, Nate, to have humstrung you in the field. Alas, the same happened to me. I sense another blog post coming on…

  41. Kieth: I was a research assistant/co-author with Cole Durham my last semester at BYU (and while I was working on the Hill). I don’t remember the lunch.

  42. Steve: Not to worry. Shannon was never really interested in me, and after I bailed on Summer Lovin’ I never had any chance. I think I still have a letter she sent me on the back of a xerox of her face, however. As it happened, the woman I married DID write me through out my mission, although I think that she may have been engaged to someone else at the time. Or maybe on the verge of getting engaged. It is all very complicated.

  43. When I was at law school at Duke, my oldest daughter was in a playgroup with Bryce’s daughter.

    Like Russell, I have a Vernal connection–my in-laws are from Vernal, and my wife knows the Jolleys.

    I used to work at the same law firm that Matt Evans’ co-blogger, Stuart Buck used to work at.

    I’ve tried to explain to my non-member friends that, in the Mormon Church, it’s more like “Four Degrees of Separation.” I think that’s about right.

  44. Wow. The only bloggers I know are Chris Williams (Outer Boroughs) because he’s my bishop, Mark B because he’s in my ward and I teach his son in seminary, and Russell Fox because we grew up in the same ward together (and his brother is one of my best friends). But I work in Manhattan (20th & Broadway) and would love to do lunch with any bloggers.

  45. Rosalynde,

    I don’t think I know you but I dated a Welch (Greg) on and off for a couple of years. And his Grandpa Sutton delievered me from my mother’s womb on the day he retired.

  46. Just for the heck of it… I feel like throwing in my “Cole Durham” relationship. I was the missionary in Bulgaria who had to drive to his hotel at 11:30 at night and drop off something he had forgotten at the mission home. Plus I met him a few times when the Bulgarian ambassador to the U.S. visited BYU and at various other symposia.

  47. Nate,

    The lunch with Durham was in the food-court–just a chance meeting. I’d been a research assistant one summer for Cole when he was doing the translation and introduction to the Vieweigh (spelling?) text on law and rhetoric (topics?). I wasn’t a law student, but had done work in rhetoric. I remembered you at that time largely because of the LDS-PHIL connection.

  48. I stake a claim at the single most-connected blogger, partly from being the longest-standing member of the Manhattan First Ward, partly from being the brother of a Sunstone founder, and having many connections to BYU and Boston.

    From Manhattan I, I know Kaimi and Mardell, Greg Call, Steve and Sumer Evans, the Bushmans, Steve Cannon, Mathew Parke, Jim Lucas (JWL) and Cristina Taber.

    My sister, Peggy Fletcher Stack, was one of the founders of Sunstone and its editor from 1981-1986 — from this time I knew Susan Oman. Susan is Nathan’s mom, but I know Nathan because he married my first cousin, Heather Bennett.

    Greg Call moved to Brooklyn, and joined the ward whose Bishop is my nephew-in-law, Chris Williams (he’s married to my niece Keri Fowles Williams). Other bloggers I know from Brooklyn include Rusty (?) and Mark Butler.

    I have a family and school connections in Boston. My brother-in-law Doug John is the Bishop of the Belmont Ward (2?) and I know Kristine Harris and Kevin Ashworth from that stake, though I met Kristine and John Hatch at Sunstone last summer.

    I haven’t met the Caswells or the Bells, but Davis Bell has moved into my Stake, and I’ll probably see him around.

    And my family, consisting of Bennetts, Fletchers, Grants, and Chipmans, is pretty omnipresent. My uncle Bob Bennett is the Senator from Utah (as was my grandfather, Wallace F. Bennett) and my great-grandfather is Heber J. Grant, which means that Truman Madsen is my first cousin once removed. James Fletcher (former president of the University of Utah) was my uncle, and Harvey Fletcher (there’s a Fletcher building at BYU and UofU) was my grandfather. The current president of the University of Utah is Mike Young, who was our former Stake President here in Manhattan!

    Any questions?

    :)

  49. I stake a claim at the single most-connected blogger, partly from being the longest-standing member of the Manhattan First Ward, partly from being the brother of a Sunstone founder, and having many connections to BYU and Boston.

    From Manhattan I, I know Kaimi and Mardell, Greg Call, Steve and Sumer Evans, the Bushmans, Steve Cannon, Mathew Parke, Jim Lucas (JWL) and Cristina Taber.

    My sister, Peggy Fletcher Stack, was one of the founders of Sunstone and its editor from 1981-1986 — from this time I knew Susan Oman. Susan is Nathan’s mom, but I know Nathan because he married my first cousin, Heather Bennett.

    Greg Call moved to Brooklyn, and joined the ward whose Bishop is my nephew-in-law, Chris Williams (he’s married to my niece Keri Fowles Williams). Other bloggers I know from Brooklyn include Rusty (?) and Mark Butler.

    I have a family and school connections in Boston. My brother-in-law Doug John is the Bishop of the Belmont Ward (2?) and I know Kristine Harris and Kevin Ashworth from that stake, though I met Kristine and John Hatch at Sunstone last summer.

    I haven’t met the Caswells or the Bells, but Davis Bell has moved into my Stake, and I’ll probably see him around.

    And my family, consisting of Bennetts, Fletchers, Grants, and Chipmans, is pretty omnipresent. My uncle Bob Bennett is the Senator from Utah (as was my grandfather, Wallace F. Bennett) and my great-grandfather is Heber J. Grant, which means that Truman Madsen is my first cousin once removed. James Fletcher (former president of the University of Utah) was my uncle, and Harvey Fletcher (there’s a Fletcher building at BYU and UofU) was my grandfather. The current president of the University of Utah is Mike Young, who was our former Stake President here in Manhattan!

    Any questions?

    :)

  50. I stake a claim at the single most-connected blogger, partly from being the longest-standing member of the Manhattan First Ward, partly from being the brother of a Sunstone founder, and having many connections to BYU and Boston.

    From Manhattan I, I know Kaimi and Mardell, Greg Call, Steve and Sumer Evans, the Bushmans, Steve Cannon, Mathew Parke, Jim Lucas (JWL) and Cristina Taber.

    My sister, Peggy Fletcher Stack, was one of the founders of Sunstone and its editor from 1981-1986 — from this time I knew Susan Oman. Susan is Nathan’s mom, but I know Nathan because he married my first cousin, Heather Bennett.

    Greg Call moved to Brooklyn, and joined the ward whose Bishop is my nephew-in-law, Chris Williams (he’s married to my niece Keri Fowles Williams). Other bloggers I know from Brooklyn include Rusty (?) and Mark Butler.

    I have a family and school connections in Boston. My brother-in-law Doug John is the Bishop of the Belmont Ward (2?) and I know Kristine Harris and Kevin Ashworth from that stake, though I met Kristine and John Hatch at Sunstone last summer.

    I haven’t met the Caswells or the Bells, but Davis Bell has moved into my Stake, and I’ll probably see him around.

    And my family, consisting of Bennetts, Fletchers, Grants, and Chipmans, is pretty omnipresent. My uncle Bob Bennett is the Senator from Utah (as was my grandfather, Wallace F. Bennett) and my great-grandfather is Heber J. Grant, which means that Truman Madsen is my first cousin once removed. James Fletcher (former president of the University of Utah) was my uncle, and Harvey Fletcher (there’s a Fletcher building at BYU and UofU) was my grandfather. The current president of the University of Utah is Mike Young, who was our former Stake President here in Manhattan!

    Any questions?

    :)

  51. Bob and Nate,

    Kevin Worthen tells (as I remember it) the story of going all sorts of places and when he says he’s from BYU, the question almost immediately followed “Oh, do you know Cole Durham.” Curious and probably tired of this, he sat down next to someone on a flight somewhere or other. He asked the person: “Do you know Cole Durham.” He did.

  52. Rosalynde, no need to worry about outing me. I just didn’t mention you above because I was just referring to connections to permanent bloggers. I know more commenters than permanent bloggers here:

    Rosalynde (my sister in law);
    Jordan (my brother);
    Ronan Head;
    Ebenezer;
    Ben Spackman;
    Lyle;
    Fred Geddicks (guest blogger and my con law prof);
    I think there are others but I can’t think of all the commenters right now.

    And apparently, as deduced from some previous comments, I must know one or two of the anonymous bloggers (those who use pseudonyms), although I still haven’t been able to figure out who one of them is.

    But I feel like I have gotten to know many of you pretty well through our discussions here.

  53. I have not read all of the blogs in the bloggernacle, but thus far I can say I have never met (or at least do not remember meeting) a single person in the bloggernacle. It would be nice if there more Canadian nackers so I wouldn’t fell like I am the token Canadian in the bloggernacle.

    FWIW, I doubt I am related to anyone either. My parents joined the church when I was five in Regina. However, I did meet a family on my mission who shared a common ancestor from the 1600s.

  54. I have strong Cole Durham connections too but didn’t mention them b/c to my knowledge he has never commented here.

  55. D., if Keri Fowles is your niece, do you think there might be a connection between you and me? It depends on which Fowles clan she is from. I have noted elsewhere that, although it doesn’t seem like the most normal name, Fowles is actually not so uncommon.

    Anyway, Chris Williams has already asked me through comments on his blog whether I am related to his wife Keri Fowles. I don’t know. Where is she from?

  56. John,

    Cole hasn’t commented to my knowledge (I can’t imagine him having time). He was just a commonality among some here–probably many if experience holds out. Perhaps more than degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon, the best LDS version would be from Cole Durham.

  57. Keith, I recall being introduced to you by David Paulsen (though I wasn’t there for his Kierkegaard class with Pojman) and I think it was actually at the Stephen Davis lecture (on physically witnessing the resurrection, as I recall). If so, I have actually been in the same room with Nate as well!

  58. Oh my, after this thread I *do* qualify as “frequent contributor” (I don’t think of myself that way).

    Keith, what an amazing memory! I remember you as a thoughtful and stimulating teacher–and thank you for your compliment on my writing. Personally, I cringe whenever I read anything of mine that’s older than two or three months.

    Nate, I lived with Lisa in a house on 7th East, about 4th North or so–I think it was fall of 1995. Our roommates included a Missy, a Stephanie, a Josie, and a Kristiana. How is Lisa, anyway? And “Summer Lovin” sounds exactly like Shannon. In the end, neither you nor Steve ever had any real chance with her–she married a creative type who’s now a television writer in LA, undoubtedly on his way to fame and fortune. Shannon and I both had weaknesses for English majors, but we dumped them when we sensed they would turn to law. ;)

    Steve, you are only one of many men who have swooned over my sensuous prose, my curvaceous syntax, my exciting prepositions. Small comfort for an under-dating BYU coed, I must say.

    Mary, yes we dated brothers! Greg is my brother-in-law. And any delivery of Grampy Sutton’s is a friend of mine.

  59. Ryan Bell–

    What was the name of your team(s) and teammates? I’m sure I’d remember you.

    Perhaps I did speak to you. Does this sound familiar: “Neg five, and I’ll complete the question for the other team.” :)

  60. Hi, John!

    Keri is the daughter of my sister, Kathryn Fletcher, and Robert Fowles, currently President Hinckey’s physician.

    Robert is the son of Grant and Martha Fowles. Grant taught physics at U of U. I believe the Fowles “homestead” was in Fairfield, UT? That’s the best I can do on that line.

    P.S. Some bloggers I really would like to meet: Kim Siever, Julie from Austin, Jeremy Grimshaw, Jack (?), and others who have blogged about music and arts. I’d like to meet some of you very intelligent bloggers with viewpoints that are at odds to mine, like you, John, and Jordan, and Adam, Kingsley, etc. Maybe we should have a blogger celebration — my apartment in NYC is available!

    And I misstated something: though Mark Butler and Rusty are in Chris Williams’ ward, I do not know them personally.

  61. Greg,

    That’s where. I knew Davis from Claremont and the lecture was about the resurrection. I think Siebach might have been there, too.

    (By the way, your line about Faulconer and the wedding ring was hilarious.)

  62. Also, at BYU I was on an intramural ultimate frisbee team known as the Danites, which means I probably played ultimate against any commentor who also played ultimate. I vaguely remember Matt saying that he was in the intramural legue, so maybe we met before law school. I was the tall, red-head player who said “damn it” a lot.

  63. Ros: under-dating? For shame. If I’d known that, things could have turned out much, much differently. Or maybe not. Who can say….?

    Actually, besides getting married, you’d be surprised at how little I’ve changed over the years. I am still better at critiquing than creating. I am still better at making snarky comments than at generating real insight. Even Scott, my erstwhile roommate from BYU days, is my roommate once again (long story).

    I second D.’s proposition that we have a blog party sometime, preferably on the UWS. Palatial Evans Manor is open for the occasion. BYOB.

  65. D., Is it Robert Fowles, the heart surgeon? Interesting. People always ask me if I am related to him. I think I must be if the homestead is in Fairfield, but it is a more distant relation because my Fowles stem from Sanpete county. I would assume that most if not all Utah LDS Fowles stem from the same initial Fowles convert/immigrant from England (Pershore). I know for sure that there is a Delta branch and Sanpete branch of the Fowles, and I am from the Sanpete branch (although I personally am not from Sanpete county, my father grew up there in Mt. Pleasant).

  66. Rosalynde: Lisa got a master’s degree from the U. of U. in social work and now lives and works in Logan as a social worker. She is planning on getting married in March. I think that I actually used to stop by the 7th East house fairly regularlly when I was out running. I also used to steal her truck fairly regularlly, although I can’t remember if she had the truck when she lived on 7th east.

  67. D. reminds me of a few other connections: His sister Tina and I were freshmen at BYU together a long time ago, and his other sister Peggy called me (for reasons known only to her–maybe Bishop Williams put her on to me) for comment when she was writing the story about the Manhattan temple announcement. That gave me a chance to tell her that Mike Young, when stake president over the river, had proposed (to the first presidency) turning the racquetball courts into a temple almost 15 years before that announcement was made. Mike probably told me that story on the ski lift at Alta, where we used to spend a few days every year after April conference.

    Mike and Cole Durham and I spent part of one of those conference weekends together, but I’m sure that Cole has no clue who I am.

    And when I was a lad D.’s grandfather gave a speech at a symposium for high school students that I attended at the U, and his uncle (?) Steven moved into my ward in Provo after he retired as General Counsel of AT&T.

  68. Russell,

    Ask Melissa if she remembers Halloween of 1990, when she and Tara and Patrick and I watched a “real� horror movie (“Evil Dead 2,� I think) in the Chipman Hall laundry room, while the rest of those Chipman losers were watching “The Watcher in the Woods� in the Req room. (No, there’s no good story to be told … it’s just that it’s one of the few memories I have of her … at least I think it was her…)

    Aaron B

  69. BTD Greg: “Like Russell, I have a Vernal connection–my in-laws are from Vernal, and my wife knows the Jolleys.”

    If she or any member of her family ever went to the dentist, they very likely were treated by my mother’s twin brothers, Richard and Robert Jolley, a couple of 260 lb.-plus cowboy dentists. Fine, fine people. Crazy, but fine.

    Rosalynde: “I lived with Lisa in a house on 7th East, about 4th North or so–I think it was fall of 1995.”

    I’m almost positive I regularly visited a house near or on that corner, as part of Student Review business–but that came to end at least the year before that fall. Did you live there earlier, or did any of your roomates?

    For what it’s worth, Cole Durham was on my M.A. oral defense committee (because first and second choices Jim Faulconer and Fred Gedicks both fell through).

  70. This thread is really creepy, BTW. I don’t know why, it’s just weird. Can’t we go back to sniping at each other over virtually identical policy viewpoints?

  71. Hm…

    I know Russell and Rusty from Spokane, where I attended high school with Russell and Rusty’s sister Jennifer. Russell doesn’t remember me (which kinda hurts — but I was a freshman and he was a lofty senior, so I understand), and though I’m sure I’d met Rusty, I don’t remember him. So I guess it’s even.

    ; )

    I do remember reading Russell’s STUDENT REVIEW writings and enjoying them, but worried all along that Russell was probably going to hell. The jury, however, is still out on that one.

    I’ve met Jim Foulconer on campus, and was friends with his son for a few years before life and a wife moved him into other circles.

    As a student custodian, I used to empty Brandi’s recyclables… and I really enjoyed the few chats we had at the time.

    I’m a social man, though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if I didn’t know a lot more of you from my time at BYU or my stints in various student wards in NYC, Boston, and DC while I travelled on business.

  73. Robert Fowles is a cardiologist — not a heart surgeon.

    Steve, I offered my apartment first! Better TV there, remember… and a grand piano too!

  75. “I do remember reading Russell’s STUDENT REVIEW writings and enjoying them, but worried all along that Russell was probably going to hell. The jury, however, is still out on that one.”

    It is?

  76. Well, let’s see.
    I know Bryce Inouye from BYU’s College Bowl. Same with Jonathan Green.

    I know Ben Huff from Notre Dame—we were frequent coparticipants in the go-to-Sunday-dinner-and-stay-up-all-night-yakking circuit.

    I sat in the back and made no comments at a panel in which Richard Bushman spoke. This was also at Notre Dame. I was briefly introduced to someone or other after the panel who probably participates somewhere in the blogosphere.

    Nate Oman stayed on our couch one night at Notre Dame. He kept me and Lyle up till 2 AM explaining how to measure the the damages the South owed the North if you construed the Constitution as a contract. It was all very convincing at the time. Iceland and feuds came into the conversation somehow too.

    Lyle Stamps and I go way back. We were in the same student ward together, and in the National Guard at the same time.

    I enjoyed meeting John Fowles, who seemed none the worse for wear from his overnight stay in a ‘monastic cell.’

    Jordan Fowles, John’s brother, is best of friends with John Young, an ND grad student. I’ve met him a coupla times.

    I’m my own grandpa.

    I once met Kim Siever in 1993. It was a cold winter and he called for pizza delivery. I was on duty that night. I remember handing the pepperoni over the doorstep and he looked me right in the eye and said two simple words that changed my life. “Thank you.” I’m offended he doesn’t remember it. Also, he’s my father.

  77. I like blog parties … especially since my wife is suspicious that everyone who spends a lot of time on-line is a creep and she keeps saying to me “One of these days you guys are all going to want to meet up.”

    Everyone knows I know Bryce ever since I was a wee lad. I used to work with Karen Hall back before she was a Harvard-trained attorney. That’s right. She used to scan documents for a living. I hear she’s now thinking about quitting law entirely and going back to scanning documents. Or was it a sno-cone stand at the beach? I dunno. :mrgreen:

    I took a class once from Dan Peterson and hometaught at least four of his students when they were attending the 1993 winter semester BYU Jerusalem Center Arabic intensive program with him as their Arabic professor.

    I don’t really accept that Kaimi exists but there’s a returned missionary in my ward who served in the Bronx and occasionally does bear testimony that Kaimi lives.

  80. I have never met anyone in the bloggernacle, although with a few of you I’ve been so curious about who you are that I’ve flown to where you live, gone through your garbage late at night, and trailed you for several days.

  81. The only one of y’all I’ve ever met is Nate Oman- his sister and I were friends about 12 years ago and I made frequent visits to their parents house at the time. Also, I have seen his uncle’s stump leg bark at a dog. I guess that’s not a connection to the bloggernacle, but it sure was funny.

  83. Russell,
    I’m Greg’s wife who grew up in Vernal. It’s funny your uncles are the twin dentist Jolleys. I know who they are, but I went to the other set of twin dentists in town, Jensens. What a bizarre town.

  84. “….but I went to the other set of twin dentists in town, Jensens.”

    DAMN YOU JENSENS!!! (fist shakes at heaven) Everything was beautiful is Vernal, a veritable Uintah Basin paradise, until their ilk moved into town. THAT TOWN ISN”T BIG ENOUGH FOR TWO SETS OF TWIN DENTISTS!!! (Especially given the width of my uncles.) Someday, there shall be a reckoning!

  85. Aaron,

    Much to Russell’s amazement, I was able (after a few minutes — mentioning Tara’s what connected things) to place your name, and even conjure up a 14-year-old image. Has it really been that long??

    I don’t remember Halloween of 1990 — It’s possible I was there… I don’t remember Evil Dead 2 (which is no suprise; I don’t remember much “non-useful” information; I leave that to Russell — it’s why we won that Trivial Pursuit game, which I remember, but he doesn’t) but hanging out with you and Tara and Patrick sounds familiar… (do you know what happened to them?? They were dating at the time, right?)

    Melissa

  86. Melissa,

    I’m afraid I don’t know what happened to either of them, but it sure would be fun to find out. I don’t think Patrick returned to BYU after his mission, but I could be mistaken.

    I’m don’t know why I remember Halloween, 1990. It’s one of those random, pointless memories. And I guess it’s possible that it wasn’t you that was there, but I think it was.

    Come to think of it … I’m not even positive we watched “Evil Dead 2.” We might have watched “Basket Case” or “Reanimator.” But it was definitely something not deemed fit for mass BYU consumption, which is why we got relegated to the laundry room, while the more pure and pious got to inhabit the larger recreation room to view their cheesy Disney flick.

    Aaron B

  87. Yes, am I fully aware of your recent activities, Mr. D. Bell. It was I who unfastened the dirty diapers before I put them in the trash.

    Yup, I know Yuri Colton. Why? Has he joined the bloggern?

  89. “I once met Kim Siever in 1993. It was a cold winter and he called for pizza delivery.”

    The weird thing is that I did order a pizza in the winter of 1993. Were you working in Pleasant Grove?

  90. Oh, and for the record, I would like to met D. Fletcher, too. Actually, I’d like to meet any of the regular commenters here, but I have preference of course for the ones who comment on my blog.

  91. Russel,

    Guilty as charged. By the way, I think you missed last month’s payment on your Discover card.

    Adam,

    Damn you.

  92. The laundry room! Now I remember. Not the movie, but I remember us all hanging out and talking.

    I’ve lost touch with so many people from my freshman year. Didn’t we have an honors English class together our freshman year, taught by Tessa Santiago?

  93. Silus, if you’d actually use your real name, as opposed to this one which, while nice enough, sounds like the sort of thing a Robert H. Heinlein character would be named if written by J.K. Rowling, I wouldn’t forget while making up my bloggernacle tree that I knew you, or might have known you, or probably could have known you, but didn’t.

    “Of course the jury’s still out — there’s always blood atonement.”

    Wait, I missed a step. Am I supposed to have my blood spilled, or do I get to spill someone else’s? If the latter, can I choose?

  95. “Yup, I know Yuri Colton. Why? Has he joined the bloggern?”

    Adam,

    Yuri isn’t among the ranks just yet. I’ve been thinking of offering an official invitation on behalf of all of us, but I wanted your approval first. :-) He definitely seems like the bloggern type if he could just find the time… wait a minute, isn’t that all of us? How do we have time for this anyway?

    Actually, I home teach Yuri and his family and am getting to know them. Very nice people.

  96. Bob, Ben huff is my wife’s first cousin. Is Danielle your sister?

    Folks, It is with great pride that I reveal to you that the mighty Kingsley is a very dear friend of mine.

  97. Hmm, I know a couple of bloggernackers personally. The Bushmans I know because they attended my branch once a month. My mother knows them too because she lived in their house about 35 years ago.

    I’ve met Steve Evans and Christina T-K. I also know Randy Butterfield from my past life in the Atlanta ward. I think that’s it. Oh, I’ve met that Celibate in the City girl once or twice, can’t say I liked her very much.

    I feel so deprived because I didn’t go to BYU and get to meet all you lovely people.

    I’d like to meet the rest of you New Yorkers because I’m a New York City snob now. ;-)

  98. Oh yeah. Ebenezer, It’s quite possible that we know each other if you have close ties to the Huff family.

  99. Come on over, JJ! Maybe I should have a party with just the single bloggers in NYC, so we can all… er, meet up.

    Let’s see… Davis Bell, Jen J, Jim Lucas, and me. Anybody I’ve left out?

  100. RE: possible mini-union (it couldn’t be a re-union, so it must be a union): I don’t know when I will next be in New York, the most logical place to meet, it seems, but I will be in Memphis at the meetings of the Society for Phenomenology and Existential Philosophy. I arrive Wednesday (27 October) night and leave Sunday (Halloween). I would like to meet any bloggers, commenters, or other interested parties while there. Russell has previously spoken about coming to Memphis for the meetings, or perhaps for part of them. I’m not sure. In any case, there will be a meeting of at least two of us. (I originally wrote “union” instead of “meeting,” but I immediately realized what that might be taken to mean in the present political context–and though I like Russell, I’m not that interested in him). Anyone else interested in getting together, drop one of us a line by e-mail.

  101. Jack, Danielle is my sister. It is a very small world. Ebenezer turned out to be someone I’ve known of for quite some time. How ’bout you Jack? Maybe we’ve met… or maybe I’ve just heard of you.

  102. Silus Grok, I’m with Russell, you need to reveal your real name (or is it your real name) so I can ask my sister if she knows you. So I found out you are a graphic designer, nice. Not many of us here in the bloggernacle. You must be friends with Jared Benson (of Typophile). Did you graduate from BYU BFA design department?

    D Fletcher, it looks like you’re going to have to take charge and organize the party. Let me know.

    JJ, come to the ward, there are three of us you can meet:)

  103. Add one more to D. Fletcher’s endless connections. I probably met him at one of his sister Tina’s wedding functions. The rest of you, however, are complete strangers to me.

  104. D. Fletcher,

    I’m down like a clown. Let’s make this NYC blogger thing happen.

    What: A gathering of the NYC-area blogger

    Where: D.’s apartment

    Who: All NYC-area bloggers

    When: A few weeks time?

    Why: Um, I’m not really sure, but I still want to do it. Maybe it’s because I like to actually, physically see someone after reading their opinions and stories and experiences for a long time. Or maybe it’s because I feel like my brother, Ryan, is more connected to the Bloggernacle, which aggravates a long-standing inferiority complex, and meeting you all would finally — finally ! — allow me to do something that he hasn’t done. Just once in my life. Is that so much to ask?

  105. Rusty, I’ve been working in design for 15 years! And I need a job — just putting it out there.

    I’m going to Utah today, for 10 days. I’ll be back on the the 28th. How about Friday night, the 29th? I’ll be happy to have anybody over.

  107. Yeah, that’s right, Steve. Were you planning on coming? Sorry, nobody told me.

    You can bring the DVD to the party.

  109. We need to get some women to the party (they don’t blog too often here).

    So, here’s a starting list:

    Me (D. Fletcher)
    Kaimi and Mardell
    Steve and Sumer
    Richard and Claudia Bushman?
    Logan Bobo
    Jim Lucas
    Jennifer Jensen
    Davis Bell
    Rusty (?)
    Mark Butler (and wife?)
    Chris and Keri Williams
    Caswells?

    Who else can come?

  112. D. mentioned coming to Utah today. Maybe, since he is the center of these party talks, there could also be an SLC bloggernacle party while he is out here?

    Just an idea. . . .

    (I would be happy to offer my house for the event.)

  113. Who else is in SLC? I am (and my not-so-fond-of-blogging yet-still-marvelous wife). John, since you’re bringing this up, maybe we could invite Rayna. My wife LOVES Rayna (who doesn’t?).

  114. I bet we have a handful bloggers around here. Pipe up if you’re interested (coming to my house and having a party there doesn’t mean you are endorsing or espousing any of my views, should you find them repugnant).

  115. My wife Amy will come. As for those Caswells, I’m always trying to get them to come visit New York from Utah. Maybe this will convince them.

  116. LOL, I thought the Caswells lived in the Bronx along with you and the Wengers.

    LOL

    John, if you do end up having something in SLC, I’ll happily come ’round. I’m actually a little bit … humbled … that you would want me.

  117. Alright, so far we have Danithew and spouse and D. Anyone else in the SLC area interested in coming? As soon as I have a better idea of who is interested, we can set a date that accommodates D. (he will be here until Oct. 29).

  118. Actually, D. will be in Utah until Oct. 28, so we probably should get together before that even, maybe the 27th at the latest.

  119. D., all, I’ll take the crazy Chinatown bus down to NYC if you have a bloggerfest on the 29th.

    I think D. , Ben Huff, Taylor, and the Bushmans are the only bloggern I have met in person (besides, of course, my cousin JOHN DAVID PAYNE). My family dad and Rosalynde & John’s dad-in-law are old friends. And some of the New York types know another cousin, Sara Payne Anderson. Braden Bell (brother of Ryan and Davis) used to be in my brother Rich’s ward. Ben Spackman knows brother Evan. And I know that my grandparents’ hometeacher lurks sometimes :)

  120. Er–my family dad? I don’t know what I was starting to write there, but I just meant my dad.

    [I’m just a poor, sleep-deprived but happy Red Sox fan. David Ortiz for President!!]

  122. Rusty:

    Jared Benson is my home teaching companion and EQ president. And he has commented on my blog. As has Joe Pemberton — another Typohile. So I guess if you and Silus know them, and they vouch for me, I can establish myself as the real deal and set to rest those rumours that I’m just some AI bot floating around the Web.

  123. Aha, a new connection. I run into Jared Benson and Joe Pemberton all the time while we’re dropping our kids off at Nursery. I didn’t realized they were in with the bloggern.

  124. I have actually MET very few of you, but I knew of many of you before seeing your names pop up here in the ‘nacle. And I have found connections with many of you who I have met only by discussion in various parts of the ‘nacle- we know the same people, have studied in the same programs, and the same things.

    Here is a small list (in no particular order…):

    Nate Oman: met at a dinner in a South Bend pizza place in February 2003. He probably does not remember, but I remember his Harvard snobbishness… JUST KIDDING. (Although the LARGE group of Harvard law students at that event DID block off two or three entire tables for the dinner right in front of the keynote speaker…. that rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. But I am sure Nate had nothing to do with it…)

    Adam Greenwood: I met him for the first time at the same event. And I have heard loads about him from John Young, and have loads of admiration for him and his wife based on what I have heard. I would love to be in a ward or stake with him sometime and have him for an Elder’s Quorum President or instructor where I could learn from him first hand.

    John Fowles: He’s my brother. Everyone knows this. Our lives are eerily similar, since we both are frustrated GERMANISTS in the law. I should post a picture of us when we got to work together as missionaries in Germany.

    Dan Richards: He is one of my best friends- we journeyed from the joint German/linguistics Ph.D. program at Michigan into the world of law together, we both teach still in the same department, our kids are best friends, he sits next to me in the class I have in about thirty minutes, and much much more. I certainly admire Dan. I think he was the one who first mentioned the name of T&S to me…

    Lyle Stamps: Met him for the first time at the Notre Dame event a few years back. And he caused a stir with his “Mormons4Bush” T-shirts at Vanderbilt this last February. ;)

    Rosalynde Welch: I have met her on a few occasions, due to times staying or visiting the Welches in Provo when John and Allison lived there.

    BTD Greg: works (or worked?) for a firm I interviewed at recently.

    Ben Huff: I have never met him, but have heard about him from my Notre Dame friend John Young (who recently commented on here finally and will have to work hard to resist the addiction!!)

    Steve Marsh: Lives in a ward with a friend of mine from Michigan Law School (TDP). I have never met him either.

    Kristine Haglund Harris: I never met her either, but apparently she was in Ann Arbor in the German department a few years prior to me.

    There are many others to whom I have even more tangential connections, and probably several who I have actually met but can’t remember right now.

    If you ever chance to meet me, please be nice… :)

  125. I am new enough to the bloggernacle that I don’t have too many connections, but, here are the few I have:

    1. I am the brother of Ryan and Davis Bell. As a teenager I was a demanding, overbearing director who browbeat and yelled them into excellent performances as the Scarecrow and Cowardly Lion (respectively) in a large-scale production of “The Wizard of Oz.”

    2. As Kris noted, our respectful bloggernaccle sparring was preceded by my hearing her brother’s wonderful (very orthodox, I might add) Gospel Doctrine lessons in what is essentially the Vanderbilt University ward in Nashville TN.

    3. I know someone named Valerie Frandsen Goates–any relation, Rosalynde?

    4. Finally, Jim F. rendered signficant and much prayed-for aid when he was Associate Dean (or something) of General Education at BYU. I was ill for many years while trying to get my BA. With three kids, my wife and I were desperate to graduate and get through. Jim waived, or granted equivalency for, a few General Ed. classes that helped me graduate in a mere 6 years rather than 8, and I went on to two rounds of grad school. This was a profound help to us and I am sincerely grateful. Thanks Jim. His secretary, whose name was, I believe, Pinkie, was exceptionally nice, as well.

  126. I am new enough to the bloggernacle that I don’t have too many connections, but, here are the few I have:

    1. I am the brother of Ryan and Davis Bell. As a teenager I was a demanding, overbearing director who browbeat and yelled them into excellent performances as the Scarecrow and Cowardly Lion (respectively) in a large-scale production of “The Wizard of Oz.”

    2. As Kris noted, our respectful bloggernaccle sparring was preceded by my hearing her brother’s wonderful (very orthodox, I might add) Gospel Doctrine lessons in what is essentially the Vanderbilt University ward in Nashville TN.

    3. I know someone named Valerie Frandsen Goates–any relation, Rosalynde?

    4. Finally, Jim F. rendered signficant and much prayed-for aid when he was Associate Dean (or something) of General Education at BYU. I was ill for many years while trying to get my BA. With three kids, my wife and I were desperate to graduate and get through. Jim waived, or granted equivalency for, a few General Ed. classes that helped me graduate in a mere 6 years rather than 8, and I went on to two rounds of grad school. This was a profound help to us and I am sincerely grateful. Thanks Jim. His secretary, whose name was, I believe, Pinkie, was exceptionally nice, as well.

  128. Jordan- “worked.” I’m one of the many. Not that it’s necessarily an unpleasant place to work, but it does, for a variety of reasons, have significant retention issues.

  130. I’m late to the discussion, but:

    * As Bryce mentioned, we’ve met; we grew up in adjoining stakes (although I think nowadays Scarsdale and the Bronx are in the same stake, no?). His sister Kara was one of my teachers when I was Sunday School President in the Manhattan 8th Ward (where I knew Taylor Petrie and, less well, his future wife Stacy), and I later met her future husband in the Stanford singles ward.
    * Unlike most of the Columbia alums here I went there as an undergrad (“grad school can’t make you an Ivy Leaguer,” you know), so don’t believe ever met anyone that way.
    * I’m pretty sure I’m the only person on Earth who’s been in Seminary (junior year of high school), Institute, and college classes (Twice!) taught by Richard Bushman. Prof. Bushman also wrote a college recommendation on my behalf, although I will eternally kick myself for inexplicably turning his offer down the first time. I’m also one of a small handful to whom two Bushmans taught Seminary, as son Serge taught my senior year. Son Ben—a fellow Columbia undergrad—was my first Elders Quorum president back from my mission.

  131. I’m just down the road in Provo… so if y’all want to put together a meet-n-greet this week (before Friday, when I’m driving to Spokane), I’d be there.

  132. Bryce, I think my college bowl intramural team was called the Ronifer Conifers, and that my teammates were Wade Bean, Ryan Jensen, and an invisible fourth member who always caused us to forfeit and consequently compete against you when the other team left with their cheaply-earned forfeit win.

  133. Me-oh-my, I love parties! I’m definitely down for the SLC party. And if Kristine is making a special effort to come to the NYC shindig, then maybe I’ll try and fly out (I wish! I’ve been trying to visit Logan out there since the last time I visited him out there). Let me know how I can help with any of this.

  134. Kristine is coming!? Yippee! Party just went to the BIG TIME.

    OK, everyone needs to help with food. Drop me an email to say if you can come and what you could bring. Whatever you all can’t provide, I’ll provide.

    [email protected]

  135. AAAck. If it were any day but the 29th I’d take the seedy chinatown bus up from D.C., but alas, I’m in a wedding the next day. (Incidentally wearing the bridesmaid’s dress from hell!). The point is, let’s not make this a one time deal, because for those of us on the east coast, it’s not so difficult to get ourselves to NYC.

  137. I’m happy to help with food; I’ll bring anything. But what are we thinking? Party snack foods/hors d’oeuvres/cocktails ;) and stuff? Was I imagining that someone said ‘dinner’ earlier? What kinds of things do we want?

  138. That was old dinner Danithew. LOL

    I think we should have real food, if we can. I won’t be flying in until 6:00 AM that morning, so I won’t be able to do my normal… spread.

    Salads, pastas, breads, vegetables, meat things (like sandwiches), appetizers, desserts, drinks.

    I’ve got plates, glasses, napkins, candles, computer, Internet, Steinway, plasma TV, and 1600 DVDs. We’re set except for the food.

    I’m off to the airport, so this will have to be settled…. later.

  139. Silus, before Friday might be a little tight. When are you coming back from Spokane and will that be before D. leaves to go back to NYC?

  141. Whoops. Didn’t mean to volunteer dinner on anyone. What a wild imagination I have. :)

    If I can get my wife to go along with this I’d like to bring something. I’m not the best cook in the world but I’m really good at picking up Marie Callendar pies or providing dessert. Actually I shouldn’t slam my own cooking that much as I’m not that bad…

  143. I can swing by Zabars and pick up a few cheeses. Let’s see, we’ll probably want a parm-reggiano, a pecorino toscano (especially if they have the aged stuff in!), a gorgonzola, a gruyere, a roquefort, a cheddar or two (perhaps a side trip to Fairway here, since Zabars never has Neal’s Yard in), some aged gouda, maybe a manchego, and some nice soft stuff like fontina or port salut. Mardell will make me get some feta too, though I still don’t see what the deal is with feta.

    I had better stop before I get too hungry. (But it’s a lot of fun, just writing down the cheese names!)

    Hmm, am I missing anything? Gordon?

  144. First of all, every bride’s maid dress is from hell. It is just a rule or something. I think the idea is that if you can make your best friends and sisters look hideous on your wedding day you are sure to stand out as strikingly beautiful.

    Second—I only know a few of you: Kristine is one of my good friends (although she decided not to claim me publicly, for which I can hardly blame her :) ) Ben Huff is also a good friend. I know Taylor Petrey from Cambridge circles, worked with Claudia Bushman at the Smith Institute and spoke on a panel with Jim Faulconer at a conference last Fall.

    By the way, I think this “who do you know” sort of game is particularly Mormon. What do you think?

    Third, let me echo Karen’s request to have another gathering sometime soon. I am down from Providence in the New Haven/New York area rather frequently and could easily attend with a little lead time. Unfortunately, I already have plans for October 29th, but I’d love to meet you New Yorkers out there in the future.

  145. Going way back to comment 3, I must confess that I’m a bit surprised at Nate’s mention that I have a much larger neck than expected. That hadn’t occurred to me previously (um, and I didn’t realize that people had expectations about my neck). Lest I surprise anyone else, let me disclose here: 17 1/2. (Actually, it depends on the shirt. Some 17’s fit just fine on me; others make me look like I’m being asphyxiated). Which isn’t such a large neck (I hope) given that I’m vaguely-moderately tall (6′, but I have terrible posture and I’m consistently slouching and looking shorter).

    (Perhaps I should add that I was a bit surprised at appearances myself — Nate has been described as reddish-haired, so I had the appropriate image in mind, and then came to learn that it is rusty brown at best. And I was also surprised at his facial hair).

  146. As a recent convert to blogging, it’s nice to see so many familiar faces, er, personas. John Fowles: I left that article you gave me last Christmas at the Welches’. Will you mail me another copy? Jordan: I hope you and Andrea have recovered from our visit this past weekend. Adam and Sara: We miss you terribly in South Bend. Ben Huff: wait, you’re the guy who was at my house last night. What a friendly place this is.

  147. I’m up for (or is it “down for”) a SLC meeting, if I can figure out how to fit it in. Whoever is organizing it, let me know when and where, and I’ll be there if I am in town. (This is “academic conference season” for me.) Also, tell me what to bring and I will.

  148. Like Jim, I’m in a really busy time right now. Still, I’d be very interested in a Salt Lake get-together, especially if we can get a sponsor to put us up at one of the resorts or something. Who’s our director of fundraising for this event? :)

  149. I must say, all this talk of everyone knowing everyone else is making me kinda sad!!!!!!! I am a convert, who met the missionaries a few years back and converted in Ann Arbor, mi. So, being that I did not grow up LDS in Utah, never went to BYU, or to any of the Ivy law Schools, I barely know anyone. I have had online conversation and phone conversations with a few people, including Kristine Harris, Jen jensen, Steve evans and Maren Scriven, but except for Dan rrchards, I have never met anyone!!!! Am planning to meet Jordan Fowles sometime soon.
    So, seeing these happy get-together plans I am BUMMED!!!!!!!!!

  150. Great, so far for the SLC gathering we have:

    me, danithew, D., Silus, Jim F., and Ryan Bell (if we can find an agreeable time). The important thing is that we have the interest. I’ll talk to my wife about possible times and return and report.

  152. Julie says she has never met any of us – ever.

    Actually, Julie, I attend Institute here in Austin while I work on my PhD. I haven’t taken any of your classes, but we (very briefly) met when you gave a talk at the Friday Forum luncheon there.

    Of course, that was while I was still lurking at T&S, and IIRC before you started your stint as a guest (and then permanent) blogger.

  155. Well, I don’t comment very often but I couldnt’ resist this thread. I have not met anybody either out of this group but have some “distant” connections.

    **Since I live in the Little Rock area, I have been in the same stake as Nate Oman but never met him.
    **If Rosalynde is now related to Jack Welch who teaches at BYU Law school, I have met him as I used to work as a student secretary at the Law School for 3 years and did quite a bit of work for Professor Welch from 1989-1992. I was also there while Steve Young attended, and I ran into him a few times.
    **My husband first started investigating the church and attending a singles ward while going to school in Austin back in 1995, but I don’t know if he would have run into Julie or not.
    **Half of my family ties run deep in Utah but I’m not sure if any are “famous” except for Solomon Angell.
    **My sister is married to a Snow, whose father has been a mission president in South Africa, director of the Jerusalem Center for awhile, and taught at BYU among other things, so some of you may have had contact with him.

    I’ve enjoyed reading all the connections and envy the ensuing parties. :-)

  157. So am I the only Angeleno in the Bloggernacle? (Angeleno means “resident of Los Angeles” for all you unsophisticates). It looks that way. I guess I’ll have to throw my own party, just for me. How very exclusive! There will be a cake, and ice cream, and maybe even some Pin-the-tail-on-the-Donkey. Alas, with no other players, it looks like I’m bound to win. Poor me. All alone. Maybe I’ll pass the time by telling mission stories to myself, and laughing at my own jokes. Kind of pathetic (sniff).

    Aaron B

  158. “Maybe I’ll pass the time by telling mission stories to myself, and laughing at my own jokes”

    That’s not too far from the current situation, my friend.

  159. There’s no way I could make an NYC Oktoberfest-fur-Bloggern right now. Busiest six-months of a four-year-cycle for me. Bummer. Maybe Bryce, Jonathan, and I will have to light this candle Carolina-style. I’d be happy to host since I’m the midpoint. It would be nice to have some actual competition at Trivial Pursuit for change!

  160. That would be great, Chad, except it lacks a lot of the mystery and excitement, seeing as we’ve all traveled across the country together before, and I lived with Jonathan for several years at BYU. Unless you’ve shaved your head or something cool like that.

    Now if there were a college bowl tournament nearby …

    Kidding aside, that sounds like a good idea. I’ll keep that in mind as I make my plans over the next few months.

    BTW, how is the Jon Stewart appearance on Crossfire playing out in your world?

  161. I first heard about it via the Blogosphere and admit I was thoroughly tickled by it. I’m not a big fan of that show anyway, but it will come as no shock to anyone that I find Tucker Carlson particularly insidious. What makes that exchange so poignant is that Jon Stewart actually got to say what most of us have been thinking for a long time.

    Now back to already over-taxed LDS folk self-perpetuating the stereotype by organizing yet ANOTHER meeting ;-)

  162. Aaron B,
    As there are apparently no bloggers in Nashville, perhaps we could at least have our solo Los Angeles and Nashville parties on the same evening!

  163. Washington DC currently claims the largest number of permabloggers on T&S (two), but none of the commenters seem to be from here.

  164. I have talked to my wife and we think that Saturday, October 23 would be the best for such a gathering. Let me know if that works for all of you who are interested in the SLC party. Email me by clicking on my name below so that I can send you my address. Feel free to bring significant others. But I will need a general headcount for food, etc.

  165. Hm, it looks like WordPress doesn’t provide a link for the email by clicking on the name?

    I am at john dot fowles at gmx dot net.

  166. John Fowles, sorry I can’t come, but perhaps there will be another one of these. In the mean time, however, you’ll need to find another way to have people get in touch with you. There is nothing to click on with your name. That worked under the old format, but not under this one.

  169. Jim, is there a time that would work better for you? Or would it work better to have the gathering down in Provo? I think it would be great to have you there (after all, you are a permanent blogger at T&S, so it wouldn’t just be the posers meeting).

  170. Connexions:

    Gordon Smith and I worked together in the BYU Writing Lab a zillion years ago. Next, we encountered each other as 1Ls at the Univ. of Chicago.

    I took English Grammar from Royal Skousen at BYU the same zillion years ago.

    I saw Chris Kimball post something here several weeks ago. He and Gordon and I were in the same ward in Hyde Pk for several years.

    And D., though you won’t know it from my avatar, based on what you’ve written here, I’ve concluded that you are the person who played piano at my wedding reception at my wife’s family’s home in Short Hills about 20 years ago.

    And Grasshopper and BrooklynChris and I have managed to connect after meeting on line a number of years ago at BeliefNet.

    If it matters, I can be emailed at canyongreenfrog (at) yahoo.com.

    greenfrog

  171. John Fowles: I’m out of town this weekend, the next, and the one after that (and given the travel time and the fact that conferences begin on Thursday, weekends begin on Wednesday). The first weekend I’m back in town will be 13 November. I don’t think everyone else should wait a month on my account. If this one succeeds, we can have another. And next time, I’ll play host.

  172. As mentioned above, I know Sid and Jordan. Many years ago, I asked Aaron Brown to be the secretary in my BYU Elders Quorum, although I hardly knew the guy. He did a great job, of course, and first piqued my interest in law school. I knew Kristine’s brother Rich Haglund on the mission. And, I’m from Vernal (Uintah High School 1990).

  174. I’m in SLC, staying with my sister and Dr. Fowles.

    John, it turns out that the Fowles are from Sanpete county — it’s Fairview Utah they’re from. You are all probably related, though Robert couldn’t say how.

    Saturday the 23rd looks good for me — email me where and when and what to bring.

    Mardell, my place is very kid friendly. I have kids over all the time, for choir practice and other gatherings, and they usually have a great time (because they love to watch my TV, and I have all the Disney DVDs, etc.) You’re welcome to bring the whole family.

  175. Nate, thanks so much for the slight. First, you forget that we went to law school together, and now you say no commenters are in Washington D.C. I’m on the verge of disowning you my friend…. :o) Which reminds me…neither you nor matt ever responded to my suggestion for a HLS family home evening or the like. Loren’s in if he ever gets back in town. But wait, I’ve just decided to disown you. So forget it…. :o)

  176. Braden, we’re coming to Nashville for Christmas, so if you wait till then, we can have a party at my parents’ house. There will be enough Haglunds, and therefore enough strongly-held (though not necessarily well-grounded or well-argued) opinions, that we can surely replicate a bloggernacle-worthy argument :)

  177. John: My trip to Spokane is this weekend, but I’ll be back by Monday afternoon (Oct 25th)… so I can’t make it either. If we could do an evening the week of the 25th, that would be super — otherwise, please give everyone my regards.

    (And what’s up with not having our e-mail addies in our byline?)

  178. Here’s my email in case anyone needs to get in touch.

    [email protected]

    Greenfrog, who are you? Who’s your wife? I don’t remember playing a wedding reception in Short Hills, though I certainly have played my share of receptions. I played at Dale Murphy’s wedding reception, at Billy Casper’s house in Price, Utah. And Gordon Bowen. And Ariel Bybee. And Steve and Graceann Bennett. And… my own sisters. And about 20 others, in different religious settings.

  179. “Many years ago, I asked Aaron Brown to be the secretary in my BYU Elders Quorum…”

    Dan Richards,

    I’m embarrassed to say that I have no idea what you’re talking about. Have I just forgotten? Which ward was this? I honestly have no memory of ever serving as an Elders’ Quorum secretary anywhere. Am I losing my mind?

    (Also, I’m trying to place you… do you have an older sister that served a mission to Russia and that lived in Cambridge at some point during 1997-2000? Did you used to head up LDS meetings at the State Prison at the point of the mountain?)

    Aaron B

  180. Would people be able to make the SLC gathering if we did it on the evening of Tuesday the 26th?

    If that would make it possible for more people to come, then we could move it from Saturday, Oct. 23. So far for Saturday, Oct. 23 we have me, D., danithew, Bob Caswell (probably), Ryan Bell (possibly), and . . . .?

    D. is Robert Fowles’s grandfather’s brother named John Fowles?

  181. John Fowles: I have a thesis defense scheduled that evening (so the defender can come after work), so I couldn’t make it. Sorry always to be the fly in the ointment.

  182. Robert Fowles’s grandfather’s name was Jacob Timothy Fowles, and he didn’t have a brother.

    Saturday, the 23rd is best for me. I have made other plans for Tuesday, the 26th, but I could possibly change them if needs be.

  184. D. this is really stumping me, especially if Robert comes from Fairview, which is also where my Fowles comes from (far back enough–most recently they are in Mt. Pleasant). I’ll have to ask my dad. . . .

  185. Ryan Bell, it looks like you’re on T&S now–are you able to come to an SLC gathering on Oct. 23 (this Saturday)? Danithew, D., Bob Caswell, and I will be there, and perhaps others who have yet to express interest.

  186. Unfortunately, neither of those dates works for me. The 23rd we have a halloween party with friends (real friends, not the ephemeral electronic kind :) ) and on that following Tuesday night I’m booked up with family stuff.

    Keep your party on the 23rd, I’ll catch it the next time around. Really looking forward to hearing how it goes, and I hope I can get in on it another time.

  187. This won’t be the last time we meet… so plan any day that suits — which appears to be Saturday.

  188. Ryan–

    I remember the team name Ronifer Conifers. I can’t come up with a face, though.

    I’ll have to make it out to a Utah T&S party.

  189. Nate,

    I am pleased to add that there is at least one commenter ‘in the D.C. area’; who would be up for any sort of get together.

    X

  190. I’ve seen/heard Richard Bushman, Royal Skousen, Dan Peterson & Nate Oman at Sunstone, Claremont, MHA-Provo (last May) & MHA-Ohio ((year before) (I think)), respectively. I’ve followed you denizens of the blaggernacle, plus Nate’s prior blog, ldslaw.

    Aaron Brown, I’m in Fullerton, in north Orange County. Where u at? Are you on the mailing list for the Miller Eccles Study Group? If not, I think you ought to be. I think you’d like it. Send me your email, will ya?

    Do any others hail from southern Calif.? If so, there’s a conference at Claremont Colleges in Claremont on “Conference on Positioning Mormonism in Religious Studies & American History.”

    “The Claremont School of Religion is developing a Mormon Studies program. This will be the first such program outside of Utah. The plan is to create an endowed chair to be occupied by a Mormon scholar who will develop & foster a Mormon Studies program at Claremont. To this end, Claremont has formed an LDS advisory council to assist in developing the program and funding the chair.”

    “One of the first ventures is the conference at Claremont on October 24-26, 2004. The featured LDS presenters will be Grant Underwood, BYU; Kathleen Flake, Vanderbilt U.; Terryl Givens, Univ. of Richmond; and Kathryn Daynes, BYU. Respondents will be scholars in various disciplines from southern California.”

    The Sunday nite program is a fireside with Grant Underwood; the other presenters & respondents are on Monday & Tuesday during the day.

    If anyone’s interested in more info, I’ll forward further details.

  191. Ops, I posted to the wrong thread.

    The conference next week at Claremont may have to serve double duty as the Bloggernacle So. Cal. Block Party.

  192. Good to see some fellow U of Chicago Law alums out there. Though I was there long before most of you–77-80–that leaves us just a step removed from each other, with links through Pete and Charlotte Johnston, and Dave and Joyce Beer, to say nothing of Richard Posner and Geoff Stone and on and on.

  193. For those who are interested in the SLC gathering, I think that the best date will be Sat. Oct. 23 (sorry those who can’t make it because of that). So far it looks like it will be me, Danithew, D., and Bob Caswell.

    Email me so that I can respond with my address:

    john dot fowles at gmx dot net

  194. Aaron–

    Yes, you are losing your mind. You have accurately remembered my sister Melinda, who lived in Cambridge, but you seem to have forgotten the BYU 164th ward, comprised of the upscale Enclave Village (where you lived) and the, er, downscale Hall Apartments across the street, where I lived. In either the Spring or Fall of 1996, you did in fact serve as the Elders Quorum Secretary–service that consisted mostly of collecting some home teaching stats and passing them on. It obviously had virutally no impact on your spiritual life, but it’s those little unmemorable things that build the kingdom. Or something.

  195. Dan,

    I DO remember you. (Otherwise, I wouldn’t have been able to identify your sister). I just wasn’t sure it was you because both your first and last names are fairly common (not that there’s anything wrong with that …) But I honestly must say I have no memory of serving as your Elders Quorum Secretary. None whatsoever. Maybe that’s due in part to the easy nature of the tasks you say were involved. Or maybe it’s due to the fact that selfless service is such an integral part of my nature that I can no more remember any of my countless acts of charity and goodness than most people can vividly remember their every breath of air…. :)

    (Or maybe I’m just dumb).

    Aaron B

  196. Rob Briggs,

    I’ve heard of Miller-Eccles, and I’ve visited the website, but I’m not on the email list. Sign me up. I’d email you my email, but I don’t know your email. Then again, I could just tell you that it’s [email protected], which it is, and I am.

    Aaron B

  197. The SLC gathering will be at my house on the East Bench at 8:00 pm on Saturday, Oct. 23. If anyone is interested that hasn’t already contacted me by email to get my address, you are still welcome to come. Just send me an email and I will let you know where we are at.

  198. Aaron, my parents are currently the directors of the Miller-Eccles group, and the meetings are held in their home. They’re always excited to see new faces, and the meetings are almost always superb. Let me know if you need any more information.

  199. I just figured out one more connection. I’ve known Rosalynde’s parents, Russ & Christie Frandsen, for a number of years thru Miller Eccles study group here in So. Cal.

  200. It was a wonderful SLC Bloggernacular, 5 really nice, smart people, and me. Many thanks to John Fowles and his wife Allison for their hospitality and heart.

  201. Anyone want to do a Bloggernacle get-together in Ann Arbor? I know we have Dan and Jordan and me here. Anyone else here from Michigan or Ohio or Indiana? lets get going and get together in ANn Arbor!!!

  202. Thanks D.! Allison and I really enjoyed the evening that we spent with you and the others. Too bad more couldn’t come, but I’m sure that there will be a larger group in the NYC gathering.

    We had great conversation about a large variety of topics including a sort of meta-blogging conversation in which discussed the bloggernacle itself and the different blogs, different threads on some of those blogs and some of our collective regrets from our positions/”tones of voice” (although in writing) and debated new ideas that were brought up.

    We also had substantive discussion about some of the same topics that get hashed out in the bloggernacle and had an insightful discussion about the Seventh Article of Faith.

    All in all, it was fun, productive, and very enlightening (to meet people in person with whom one has discussed so much and so often). If we do it again, we hope to have an even larger showing of the SLC wing of the bloggernacle.

  204. Hey D., I just wanted to let you know that it looks like we’ve got Bob coming on Friday. We’ve been working on getting him out here for a while (we’ve got lots of Broadway to see together and other things to take care of, after all), and we managed to line it up with the party. So count another in.

    By the way, it’s just him; Eve can’t make it.

  207. My wife, Amy, is actually pretty excited. Of course, we’ll have a little backup, since we know Kaimi and Mardell (who claim to know a few others), and Bob is coming. So it isn’t all a bunch of strangers to us.

  208. Bob AND Logan, as in bobandlogan? Yippee!! I’m glad Amy and Mardell will be there, too (and Sumer?) All boys is nifty in the bloggernacle, but would be weird in real life :)

  209. That’s bobandlogan.com, Kristine, but yes, that’s us. And let me say the feeling is mutual. We (if I may be so bold as to speak for the entire URL, here) always think of you as our wise older blogging sister who alternates between giving us a hard time and telling us we’re cute.

  210. Sumer doesn’t know it yet, but she’ll be there. In any event, I anticipate Kristine & Sumer & Christina will have a slumber party at Evans Manor, staying up all night braiding each other’s hair. Pillow fights may erupt, spurred perhaps by snide remarks about Gloria Steinem.

  212. Hey Uncle D — I haven’t located the particulars of the bloggernacle get together. What time are people gathering?

  213. “Is anyone else having trouble convicing their spouses that this isn’t weird and not awkward to get together?”

    I don’t have a spouse, but I’m trying to convince myself of that.

  215. Yeah, my wife likes the idea of ME meeting everyone first and then introducing her the second time around. So let it be known that both the SLC and NYC Bloggernacle Fests must be repeated at least once for the sake of my wife. So Kristine, when do we get to meet your husband?

  218. You’re not bringing your kids, Kristine? I’m suddenly less inclined to attend, knowing now that there won’t be anyone there I can converse with at my accustomed level of maturity.

  219. Ryan couldn’t make it in the end, so we had Danithew, D., Bob Caswell, Ebenezer Orthodoxy, my wife Allison, and myself. Danithew gives a report of it over at the Wump Blog. Jim said that he couldn’t come because of a conference and Silus Grok was out of town for the weekend. We never heard from Kingsley or John H., both of whom live on the Wasatch front, I believe. Sometime we’ll have to get a bigger group of us together.

    It was a blast. Thanks all.

  220. 7:00 PM, everyone. I will try to decide about food before then, but so far, we’ve got a chocolate cake coming, and Kaimi said he could bring cheeses and kids.

  221. This post is int the top ten most popular posts. By the time the party happens it will probably be the most popular post.
    Anyways I am bringing my three kids, and cheese. I will also bring some cookies for the kids to eat. Anyone have any favorites? My kids like to make chocolate chip. (by the way Kaimi when you are getting cheese get some black and whites for the kids they were asking about them.)

  223. Someone asked at my blog entry about our bloggersnacker whether we had taken any pictures. In retrospect I wish we had. So don’t forget to take pictures!

  227. This thread is quickly becoming one of the top threads. And it doesn’t even have gay marriage, abortion, polygamy, or sex of any kind! Plus, there’s not even any arguing! This site sure is calming down lately.

  228. …or sex of any kind!
    Well, I’ve seen at least one proposal floating around that these get-togethers be christened “blorgies.”

  229. D’oh! There it is two comments above.

    Sorry to be so obvious.

    (click — one more comment in this thread)

  230. Oh. My. Blog. This feels so surreal. Brian and I decided to do a google on my name, Shannon Keeley, and this is one of the links that came up. It’s the first time I had ever googled myself—honest! And considering what it turned up, it may be the last. . .After much consideration Brian and I have decided to make separate entries, so here goes.
    Steve Evans! Nate Oman! Ah, the memories. Okay, NATE OMAN first.
    Yes, the �Summer Lovin� thing is all true. You forgot to mention, Nate, that we WON FIRST PLACE in the Helaman Halls Lip Snyc Contest, no doubt due the fact that I made us practice the song and dance routine constantly. Do you remember when I fell off the top of the pyramid and actually broke my toe? I had to haul my ass up that stupid hill from Helaman Halls to campus in crutches—in the snow. But, the show went on, and we won first place. Ah, the glow of the victory is with me still.
    And Nate, how could you forget the Ward Newsletter debacle?! I somehow roped you into typing the damn thing up for me because I can’t type worth s@$$ (still can’t). We called it “Pravda,� and the joke was somehow lost on most of the ward. You referred to Chipman Hall as a “hellish pit of sin and iniquity� several times in said newsletter. I was not asked to do another newsletter. Ah. . .good times, good times.
    OK, now for STEVE EVANS. Yes, the English 252 drama. Penny Bird’s class. I remember doing some sort of group project with you about psychoanalysis theory, and I think we went on a date to the Hare Krishna/ Llama festival. Then I gave you a star scroll for your birthday that I had picked up at the grocery store. BRIAN, who sat behind you in English 252, asked if he could look at it during class and then he accidentally tore it in half. He had to fess up that he had ripped it at the end of class and you were not impressed and I believe we both tromped off rather haughtily. Yes, Cat Stevens! How funny. . .I am still quite a fan. In fact, Brian and I just made a short film about my dad’s life for his funeral, and we used the song “Oh Very Young� for the background. You also introduced me to Neil Young, and I’m still a fan of him too.
    After many continued years of even more drama, Brian Gibson and I finally got married. I still laugh about the “star scroll� moment.
    And Rosalynde, how I miss you! Seriously, I wish you still lived in San Diego. We must catch up via phone soon.
    Is there a space limit on these blog things? I have probably already gone over it. How does this thing work anyway? Have I committed a blog faux pas? Well, I’m going to throw some more names out there from our English major / BYU days and see if they ring bells with anyone. I’d love to hear what any of these people are up to if anyone out there has heard of them . . .
    Does anyone keep in touch with people who worked at the writing center? What about that guy Peter Nuttal who was really into speed reading? And remember Matt Kennington? And Holly Abbe? Brian Arnell? I keep in touch with Jason Lindquist, if anyone else knows him.
    And hey, what about Student Review people? I ran into a guy named Matt Workman, who had been my section editor for the Campus Life. I wrote a watershed article about too many big bows on campus. Anyway, Matt lives in LA now, is married. Funny guy.
    Okay, this is way too long. I’m wrapping it up. Hope to hear back from Nate Oman and Steve Evans! Nate, I can’t believe I sent you a letter with my face xeroxed on the back. Just keeping busy at work, you know.
    Bye
    ~Shannon

  231. Wow. I’m speechless. That’s quite a thread.

    My favorite part is when Rosalynde called me “a creative type who’s now a television writer in LA, undoubtedly on his way to fame and fortune.�

    If only that was true.

    I’d love to write more, but I have to bang out a season of CSI, answer my fan mail, and count all my money. And I can’t think of anything clever to say anyway.

    Besides, Shannon now wants to choreograph me in an interpretive dance routine to the entire “Footloose� Soundtrack. Quite a project. The Kevin Bacon costume she’s forcing me to wear is most ambitious, but I must admit the resemblance is uncanny.

    (Sigh.) The things one does for love.

  232. Can’t sleep. Must blog.

    Is it inappropriate to blog twice in one evening? The earlier posting was my first blog, and I fear I may have come on too strong and blabbered on in too much personal detail. I don’t know any blog etiquette-someone will have to enlighten me.

    You’ll have to pardon my questionable language in my previous blog. . .living in LA has hardened me. I’m telling you, it’s every man /woman/ dog / celebrity assistant for himself out here, and it’s turned me into a bit of a foul-mouth. Plus this has been a really dark year for me and I’ve been a tart recently. So, sorry if my language offended anyone.

    The real reason I can’t sleep is because I realized as I re-read earlier blogs that Nathan Oman actually didn’t show up for “Summer Lovin� lip sync performance. I had forgotten about that detail, and now I’m consumed with bitterness all over again! Nate, you COWARD. My roommate Nikki, who was supposed to be your dance partner in the dance routine, had to modify all the dance moves and do them by herself. She had to DIP herself! And the fact that she is over six feet tall made it all the more noticeable. Well, it was YOUR LOSS because we won first place. I can’t believe you dogged us like that. I must have forgiven you because we went on to co-author Pravda, but I demand a retroactive aplogy!

    Aaron Brown, you are not the only Angelino. In fact, I think my husband brain knows you and we run into you at the Westwood building. Aren’t you in the MFA program at USC? Brian graduated from the same program.

    I noticed many of you hale from Manhattan. Anyone know my old roommate Kara Sandberg or her roommate Brittany Jensen? Kara has extremely long legs, which explains why she’s a Rockette, and why I refuse to go rollerblading with her anymore because she gets whistled at way too much.

    And one of you has the last name of HAGLUND. Any relation to Bruce and Buffy Haglund of Irvine California? Bruce was my bishop growing up. Such a great man, really. I have to utmost respect for him. I remember one of his nieces from Boston coming to spend a summer in Irvine and inspiring all us wee Laurels with dreams of Harvard.

    Sorry, but I haven’t got a family pioneer history to relate because I’m a convert to the church and my extended family is mainly comprised of Irish lapsed Catholic alcoholic criminals.

    Until we blog again.

  233. Shannon,

    You write “Is it inappropriate to blog twice in one evening?” Are you kidding? Many of us act like it’s _mandatory_ to blog more than once a day. And besides, even if there were a rule against it, I’m sure we would bend the rule for a woman who once captured both Nate Oman’s and Steve Evans’s hearts.

    Ahh, the melodrama. Nate and Steve, two titans battling over the same woman, only to see her leave them both behind. And now, never forgetting the initial contest, the two titans are once again at each other’s throats, battling for supremacy in the bloggernacle. Is it a vicarious rematch of their BYU contest? Are they seeing in the bloggernacle the shadow of the woman who once got away? And could this be any more melodramatic? It makes Legends of the Fall look serious and restrained.

    It adds so much depth to the Nate-Steve bloggernacle interactions. When Steve accuses T & S of being a copycat, is he really saying “I haven’t forgotten the xerox of her face (a copy!) in the letter.” How can we read this story as a subtext to every T & S / BCC interaction. (By the way, Shannon, if you’re mystified by some of that — Steve has his own Mormon group-blog, it’s here. And don’t worry about mild language — that undoubtedly just makes Steve and Nate think you’re cute).

    An everyday love triangle is fun enough, but a love triangle that results in a titanic Battle of the Blogs — now that’s spicy!

  234. Kaimi: Life, alas, is not that dramatic. I never knew Steve at BYU (that I remember).

    Shannon: I apologize for bailing on Summer Lovin’. It is one of my great disappointments in life. BTW, last I knew Matt Kennington was finishing up at BYU law school after giving up on being a history teacher. I met him once in the flesh (pathetically much of my social interaction occurs online — I tend to move half way across the country every couple of months and I spend most of my days alone in a room with a computer and stacks of paper. I had forgotten about Pravda! Chipman Hall was, however, a hopeless den of debachery. Do you remember Alan Buskirk from that ward: a freakishly tall boy from San Jose with hopelessly curly hair. He ended up as a biochemistry grad student at Harvard and lived down the hall from me in our apartment building in Cambridge. Small world…

  235. Um, Shannon, I would be said niece. I lived with Bruce and Buffy for about 7 months, right after Jonny was born. Mostly I remember studying the Laurels to try to understand the intricacies of So. Cal. fashion. I don’t know about dreams of Harvard, but I did go with Heather Clayton to see “Wayne’s World” on the first day it hit the theaters :)

  236. Shannon! Oh my, I can’t believe you stumbled on to this! I almost emailed you to tell you that I had encountered Steve Evans again, but then I was sort of embarrassed about how I had portrayed the tetrahedron (not that it was fabricated. but it’s always weird to talk about other people when they aren’t involved (yet) in the conversation) so I decided I wouldn’t. Yes, we must talk.

    And Kaimi, you wrote, “An everyday love triangle is fun enough, but a love triangle that results in a titanic Battle of the Blogs – now that’s spicy!”

    Ummm–excuse me, it was a tetrahedron! What, Shannon shows up and suddenly I’m totally out of the picture? Are you going to force Shannon and me to relive English 252 and fight for prominence again? Please, a little respect!

  237. Is tetrahedron the geometric figure that everyone’s looking for here? I haven’t followed the story very closely, but it seems to me that the reason to use a tetrahedron instead of a planar quadrilateral is that a tetrahedron by default can be used to represent a fully-connected graph with four vertices. Did every member of the tetrahedron have relationships with every other member? The imagery is very suggestive.

  238. “And hey, what about Student Review people? I ran into a guy named Matt Workman, who had been my section editor for the Campus Life. I wrote a watershed article about too many big bows on campus. Anyway, Matt lives in LA now, is married. Funny guy.”

    Matt is married!?! Holy cow. It’s the end times, people.

    Matt Workman’s Wasted Characters–the longest running consistent column Student Review ever published. Some of us hated it at first, but hell, it filled copy space, and as is so often the case at independent publications, that covers a multitude of sins. Besides, over time it became one of our most read features. Matt got offers (both anonymous and otherwise) because of that column: dates, of course, but skankier stuff too. And it grew on all of us. Towards the end, I think he was consistently turning out first-rate comedy bits; he never had the attention or the readership which Eric Snider’s columns later had in the Daily Universe, but that’s strictly due to exposure, not quality.

    The Student Review lives on in memory, both regretful and idyllic. Glad to hear about one more escapee from its downfall and collapse who emerged healthy and presumably unscarred.

  239. Holy crap.

    Shannon! Brian! Married! Married?! (channelling Long Duck Dong)

    I remember the Hare Krisha festival, it was for some dramatic presentation of pieces of the Bhagavad-Gita and was basically a chance to eat sketchy vegetarian food and pet llamas. Wow.

    I’d forgotten about the Star Scroll, but now the memories come flooding back. Sadly, Kaimi — the memories aren’t that dramatic, although it is weird that somehow Shannon omitted Rosalynde’s key role in the tetrahedron. Only at BYU!

    I live in Manhattan, Shannon, but I don’t know your “old roommate Kara Sandberg or her roommate Brittany Jensen? Kara has extremely long legs…” Somehow, I wish I knew Kara. Perhaps, Shannon, you remember my old roommate Scott? He’s my roommate now, too — he lives in our extra room in our apt., much to Sumer (my wife)’s chagrin. Perhaps Kara and Scott could get together. And if Rosalynde and Brian have their own independent NYC connections, they could get involved too, so we could repeat the whole shebang.

    I wish I could say that I was as intellectual or artistic or cool as Shannon, Brian, & Rosalynde all turned out to be. All I can claim is that I am MUCH RICHER… mwha ha hah!

  240. Shannon writes:

    “Anyone know my old roommate Kara Sandberg or her roommate Brittany Jensen? Kara has extremely long legs, which explains why she’s a Rockette, and why I refuse to go rollerblading with her anymore because she gets whistled at way too much.”

    Sorry Shannon, that’s the type of unsupported statement that we can’t allow here. (We’re a very professional and respectable blog, after all.) So I’m afraid we’re going to have to ask for verification: Please post a few pictures of the long-legged Kara, so that we can all verify the statement’s accuracy.

    ;)

  241. Sorry to use this thread for information about the Bloggernacular, but I don’t really have time to email you all separately.

    I live at 395 Riverside Drive, Apt. 13G (or 12AG). It’s the corner of 112th Street and Riverside, on the 13th Floor.

    Thanks to all in advance for food. If you don’t know what to bring, look over the list and think of something you can add that would be fun, and good (and I don’t care if you buy it 2 minutes before showing up).

    The party is at 7, but come anytime after work, as soon as 6, if you like.

    Here’s the list, so far.

    D. Fletcher (drinks, meats, breads, and fruit)
    Sumer and Steve Evans
    Kaimi and Mardell (and kids) (cheeses, and kids snacks)
    Logan and Amy Bobo (flourless chocolate cake)
    Christina (and husband) (soup)
    Davis Bell
    Bob Caswell
    Rusty (and wife)
    Chris and Keri Williams
    Kristine Harris (and husband) (maybe)

    If I missed anybody on this list, I’m sorry — trying hard to work out everything from Utah.

  242. This thread is still climbing in the ranks as one of the most popular and there is nothing in it about ssm, polagamy, or gays. There are not even any diagreements, what is becoming of T&S as we know it?

  243. First of all, I must clarify. I meant to say earlier that I was feeling “tart,� as in sour—not that I am a tart, as in a woman with. . .er. . .a tendency for. . .skankiness. That is not the meaning I intended at all, and now with all this talk of love tetrahedrons and such, I don’t want to give anyone the wrong impression.

    Nate, your apology about “Summer Lovin� was totally insufficient. It showed no true remorse. Plus, I am confused about what happened to you. Seems like you went to Harvard at some point, got married. . .where are you know? I’m sure you’re a professor of something very complicated. If I remember correctly, you served your mission in Korea, right? I ended up working for a Korean company after grad school and took many- a trip to Seoul. Love that bi-bim-bap. After a year of Korean classes I can still pretty much only say “yogi� and “chogi.�

    Steve, living in Manhattan and counting your money! Are you a lawyer or what? I think I remember your roommate Scott. . .we should definitely try to hook him up with my old roommate Kara. I believe she still goes to the Manhattan singles ward, although this is her busy “Rockettes� season so she may be scarce at church. Since we seem to have a gift for creating love tetrahedrons, why not entrap our former roommates in one?!

    Rosalynde, this is all too funny. I admit, it was pretty surreal to stumble upon this and read about the “love tetrahedron� from long ago. But, as always, you wrote with grace and poise.
    Yes, Rosalynde’s role in the love tetrahedron cannot be emphasized enough. In truth, I think it is Rosalynde who behaved the most honorably through the whole ordeal. Thank goodness she has a forgiving heart and we all stayed friends. Rosalynde has really been there for me in some difficult times these past few years.

    Kristine Haglund: I can’t believe you are that niece. . . I totally remember you. I think Whitney Clayton had a huge crush on you. I’m sure you know that Heather ended up at Harvard for undergrad and her MBA. Now she lives in LA actually. She married a guy (Rosalynde, you’ll be interested to know this), named Allan Staker. (He is the brother of Lisa Staker, who I think is an old friend of Rosalynde’s husband John Welch.) Anyway, Heather and Allan have a baby and are working on patenting some sort of invention that is like a karaoke machine but with movies instead of songs. So, that is the scoop on them. Whitney lives in Manhattan (Steve—maybe you know him?) and I believe he recently got married.

    Aaron Brown: Sorry, I confused you with a totally different Aaron. I know exactly who you are. You used to be in the Wilshire ward, and Brian and I ran in to you at the Wild Animal Park a few years ago. It turned out we were both ditching church that day—ha ha! Did you know that the Gowans moves to Pasadena and the Lintons moved back to Utah?

    And Russell Fox, I have even more Matt Workman info. When I first moved to LA I was watching “The All New Dating Game� on TV one day and I kept thinking how one of the “bachelors� looked so familiar. Turned out to be Matt Workman. That was probably about six years ago, and the dinner party I ran into him at was earlier this year, where I learned he was a bachelor no more. He’s finishing up his BA at Cal State Northridge, I believe, and he’s married to a very intelligent, feminist minded woman.

    I promise not to write novels for blogs anymore.
    ~Shannon

  244. Ah Shannon, how I’ve missed ya! I figured you’d go back to Cali at some point. Glad to hear things are going well for you.

    “Steve, living in Manhattan and counting your money! Are you a lawyer or what?” Er….. yeah. That’s the only real downside. That may all change, though, at which point I will no longer be counting my money.

    “I think I remember your roommate Scott. . .we should definitely try to hook him up with my old roommate Kara…Since we seem to have a gift for creating love tetrahedrons, why not entrap our former roommates in one?!”

    Exactly. I think it would be hilarious. Even more so if they actually get along and hook up…. can you imagine?! We could totally take the credit! Of course, if there’s a messy breakup or whatever we’re screwed, but still — worth it as a perverse social experiment.

    “I think it is Rosalynde who behaved the most honorably through the whole ordeal.”

    Agreed. She’s amazing. In retrospect, I was amazingly stupid towards everyone involved (except Brian — you star-scoll-tearing bastard!).

    “Whitney lives in Manhattan (Steve—maybe you know him?) and I believe he recently got married”

    Yep, I’ve met him — he went to Columbia, if memory serves. Kaimi knows him, for sure.

  245. Yikes — Whitney Clayton (who went to Columbia with me, Steve, Greg, Wendy, Christina, the whole gang) had a crush on Kristine?? Now this is really starting to get interesting.

  246. “When I first moved to LA I was watching ‘The All New Dating Game’ on TV one day and I kept thinking how one of the ‘bachelors’ looked so familiar. Turned out to be Matt Workman.”

    Oh man. “The Dating Game.” That would have been a life highlight for the Matt Workman I knew. Wonder if he’s changed much. You should try to track him down; if successful, give him my regards, and ask him if he knows what has become of the rest of House of Fun crew. (He’ll know what I’m talking about.) Then return and report.

  247. I don’t think it was a real crush, but we did spend a lot of time singing love duets from Broadway shows together–I’m sure one of you can find a way mention that in the most embarrassing possible context :)

  248. It seems that it is blog custom to include an excerpt from a previous blog and respond. I am learning your ways…

    “Please post a few pictures of the long-legged Kara, so that we can all verify the statement’s accuracy.�
    Kaimi, I haven’t been able to find a photo that does Kara’s legs justice. I did hunt for an incriminating photo of Nate Oman in 50’s style costume for our “Summer Lovin� lip sync escapade (a dance, which I might add, the long-legged Kara helped choreograph—no doubt a highlight of her dance career). I found a photo of the rest of the cast and myself atop the fated pyramid, but Nathan is missing.. .which makes sense since he betrayed us all in the end. Deceit from within!

    “There are not even any disagreements, what is becoming of T&S as we know it? “
    It seems you all speak of a time when this blog was a discourse on intellectual themes. . .now I fear I’ve played a critical role into turning it into something that smacks or reality TV. I’m afraid you’re all going to vote me out soon or send me to the board room and fire me. Not to knock reality TV. . .it is, after all, our livelihood. But that’s a story for another blog. . .

    “I don’t think it was a real crush, but we did spend a lot of time singing love duets from Broadway shows together�
    I seem to recall Whitney trailing after Kristine with a dreamy look in his eyes. But that is most likely my own warped memory. Whitney should defend / speak / blog for himself and stamp out the rumor I just started. In fact, it just so happens that Whitney knows the long-legged Kara I mentioned earlier, so he should definitely help us conspire to hook up Kara and Steve Evan’s roommate.

    “You should try to track him down; if successful, give him my regards, and ask him if he knows what has become of the rest of House of Fun crew�
    I will try to track him down for you!

    Okay, sorry to turn a once respectable blog into an episode of Love Connections. I promise to control myself from now on.

    But I won’t stop hunting for an embarrassing “Greaseâ€? photo of Nate Oman.

  249. Shannon, your memory is overly kind to me; I can’t imagine Whitney having a crush on me, actually. He was a handsome (if just a teensy bit nerdy), strapping young lad, while I was (alas) a plain, dumpy, and *ancient* Radcliffe girl who was friends with his *mom*, ferhevvinssake!

    Whitney, are you lurking?! You should definitely speak up, or better yet, *show* up at D.’s on Friday–I’m sure D. would play “All I Ask of You” for us ;)

  250. “My sister, Peggy Fletcher Stack, was one of the founders of Sunstone and its editor from 1981-1986 – from this time I knew Susan Oman. Susan is Nathan’s mom, but I know Nathan because he married my first cousin, Heather Bennett.�

    Did somebody mention Peggy Fletcher (Stack?) a few blogs back? Is this the same Peggy Fletcher Stack who wrote an article titled “Where Have All the Mormon Feminists Gone� in 2003? How uncanny. A friend of mine is guest editing a Southern California edition of Exponent, and they have chosen to use this article as a springboard for a round table discussion on feminism in the church. I believe the event is to take place in Orange County some time soon in the next few weeks. I also may have roped Rosalynde Frandsen Welch into submitting something for this Exponent issue (details, Rosalynde?). Anyway, I just read Peggy Fletcher’s article for the first time last week and I really enjoyed it. I was given a copy by my friend Lorie Stromberg (anyone know her? She and her husband Tom were in the Cambridge ward for many years but have lived in LA for several years now). Pass along to her (Peggy Fletcher) that it is still being circulated and inspiring roundtables!

  251. Kristine, “a plain, dumpy, and *ancient* Radcliffe girl who was friends with his *mom*, ferhevvinssake�. As Wayne would say. . .�Not!�

    You were like a refreshing injection of spirited womanhood into our little Irvine ward. Imagine a bunch of self-consumed girls (think “The O.C.�) –and then along comes a very pretty, intelligent, sassy Radcliffe girl to shake things up. I’m sure you don’t remember me, but I do recall your presence expanding my world a little bit beyond Contempo Casual. Whitney Clayton remains an enigma. Someone should track him down.

  252. Way back in comment # 219, Steve Evans wrote: I hereby reject the use of “bloggersnacker� for this Friday’s party. The ‘word’ just makes me feel dirty. You Utahers can keep it.

    As the word “bloggersnacker” was my invention, I was deeply wounded by this ferocious verbal assault. However, it just occurred to me that the term “bloggersnacker” has at least one redeeming feature. It has the same number of syllables as “CHUPABRACA.”

    And um, where did this word “Utahers” come from? :mrgreen:

  253. “It has the same number of syllables as “CHUPABRACA.â€?
    And um, where did this word “Utahersâ€? come from?”

    Well, I forgive you since you link to El Chupacabra. But I still hate the word, and will always use Blorgy or Blorg de Mayo or something similar.

    Utahers sprang to mind because I wanted to avoid that tired cliche, “Utard”.

  254. For those interested, I happen to know that Whitney Clayton now lives in the greater Minneapolis area. No, I do not know Whitney Clayton. Never met the man. But he’s a friend of one of my close friend couples, Andrew and Elizabeth Florence, whom some of you also seem to know. Anyway, I thought I’d volunteer that for those hoping to track him down.

  255. Whitney lives in Minneapolis. I successfully did not have dinner with him several times during the year that I spent going back and forth between Minnesota and Little Rock on monthly basis. My wife and I actually went with Whitney (and others) on a trip to Palmyra (including, among other things, a chance to view some seer stones and old Mormon letters in the possession of a local antiquarian.) He was even kind enough to watch our son while Heather (my wife) and I did some work in the Palmyra temple. My wife still refers to Whitney from time to time as the guy who takes more time to do his hair than I do.

    Shannon: I am married to Heather Bennett Oman (since 1999) and since graduating from BYU, I have lived in Washington DC (GWU grad school for Heather; work as Hill staffer for me); Cambridge, Massachusetts (law school for me); Little Rock, Arkansas (mainly for the BBQ and fried green tomatos); and now back in Washinton DC. I am a lawyer, although unlike Steven I am not yet rich.

  256. I knew Whitney wasn’t in NYC anymore, just forgot for a minute in that rush of nostalgia :)

    Did Elizabeth Florence used to be Liz Dunn? If so, then my aunt and uncle live in Andrew’s grandfather’s house, and I have two of Andrew’s brother’s paintings hanging in my living room…

    cue the “Small World” song–yikes!

  257. This really is an amazing discussion, and I second Mardell’s wonder that T&S has come this far without mention of usual hot-button topics. Then again, who needs SSM when you have love tetrahedra at BYU?

    As I suspected, the only people I seem to know in the Bloggernacle are greenfrog and Fred Gedicks. I noticed Shannon’s reference to the BYU Writing Center, which is where greenfrog and I first met. Spending most of my classtime in the N. Eldon Tanner Building, I found the Writing Center to be a great refuge. While I was there, I taught an LSAT prep class before I had actually taken the exam. I will never forget the looks on the faces of some of my students when they saw me in line on test day. “What are you doing here?” “Taking the LSAT.” Then it dawns on them that they were getting tips from someone who had never taken the actual exam.

    In know that some people from Madison read T&S, even if they do not comment. Last week, someone mentioned the temple prayer roll in sacrament meeting, and our Bishopric first counselor gave me a knowing look. Other members of the ward sometimes make allusions to T&S in class, but I don’t know if any of them comment here. If anyone is up for a Madison get together, let me know.

  258. It seems my voyeurism with this thread has come to an end. As I have stated in other posts – I’m new to the community. I only know Matt Jacobsen and his wife Sarah (Nate’s sister) who referred me to this sordid compulsion. I’m in Seattle, having recently arrived from Purdue. Any other Jet City or Purdue folks out there?

  259. Do you know my inlaws, the Spigorelli’s, then? They were at Purdue when we were at Notre Dame, and now that we’re in Portland they’re in Seattle.

  260. Actually, I don’t. They must have been in the one of the other Ward’s (though we managed to hit 3 of the 4 that where there. I’m actually in Bellevue now, and only now our ward and some of those adjacent to us (even though I lived here untill I was 14).

    That said, and I hope I’m aloud to submit such things being a neophyte and all…Portland is not too far, if you come up to visit family and there are others around – We love to host parties.

  261. J., when were you at Purdue? My wife’s brother and sister-in-law, Martin and Jessica Madsen, were at Purdue from 1998-2001, while he was getting his degree in physics. Their first child, Alia, was born while they lived in West Lafayette.

  263. Yep J., that’s Martin. He’s finishing up his Ph.D. in physics at U of M; in addition to Alia, he and Jessica also have a boy, Tanner, who is about to turn 2. I think they liked Indiana better than they do Michigan. We’ll see them this Christmas when we visit Melissa’s folks in Ypsilanti; tell me your name, and I’ll tell them hello for you.

  264. Kristine, Elizabeth Florence is the former Liz Dunn. And yes, you’ve got them right– Andrew’s brother Nathan is a painter. I’m amazed that you have some of his stuff. Wow, how crazy. How do you know them? (Or is it just through the art and uncle housing markets?)

  265. As a lover of a good game of “Do You Know?!!” I’m chagrined at my dearth of connections to the Blogpeople. I chalk it up to:

    A. Never having attended Harvard
    B. Not being a lawyer
    C. Having spent my time at BYU in decidedly less academic endeavors than working at FARMS or BYU Studies
    D. Not being married, and thus not having a whole other social universe in addition to my own.
    E. Never really having any friends, really.

    Ryan Bell, I think I remember you; did you use to ride the bus to Davis High School as a junior? I was a sophomore then, but I remember you, because all of the other juniors drove to school, and there you were, riding the bus.

  266. Ryan, sit down, OK? This is complicated.
    Nathan’s wife Marian was good friends with my friend (and my brother Rich’s girlfriend) Stephanie Bennett (no relation to Nathan’s wife) at Harvard. So I had met her a couple of times, though we weren’t yet good friends. Several years later, we lived in the same ward as Nathan while he was at Swarthmore (Marian was baptized there a little later)–that’s how I know (and love!) his painting. However (and I didn’t know this until last summer), the Florences were really good friends with my Aunt Betsy and Uncle John (Nagel) from the time (late 70s/early 80s?) when the Florences lived in Colorado–Andrew is good friends with my cousin Matt. And, I think just by chance (though there may be a story there that I haven’t heard yet), Betsy and John ended up buying Grandpa Florence’s house in SLC when they moved there several years ago. Also, Liz’s family is in my grandparents’ stake, and my brother Rich dated her, or really wanted to (I honestly can’t remember which). And Rich is friends with Braden (they were in the same ward before Braden moved), all of which I think makes you and me best friends by proxy. Davis, too, by the sibling commutative property :)

  268. And I had thought we were a polyglot, cosmopolitan group that had formed a striking new community via the magic of the web. Turns out we’re all either cousins or have dated each other or both.

  270. Jonathan: will do.

    Kristine: Melissa’s parents moved to the Ann Arbor area — Saline to be specific — in 1983. They were in the Ann Arbor ward until 2001 when they built a house out in Ypsi.

    Russell

  272. Kristine: My mom’s name is Donna; my dad’s is Wayne. My Aunt and Uncle (Max and Karen — she played the organ for quite a while when she was in town) were also in the ward.

    Melissa

  273. Melissa, I know your mom! Tell her hi. (Ask her if she remembers a pregnant girl who claimed to have a husband back in Philadelphia :) I sang in a little group Sis. Hedquist put together, and directed a women’s choir for the creche exhibit.)

  274. Davis: Did you just actually ADMIT in public to having been a brown and yellow dart in high school?!?!? Those are the sorts of things one really should keep to one’s self; kind of like an embarrasing middle name that the entire ward learns when you’re being sustained at Ward Conference.

    Viewmont Vikings Forever!

  275. Davis, I feel like I am in the same boat as you, but let’s put it this way: although we were not as well connected as Kristine or D. (or all of the other permanent bloggers and frequent commenters such as Rosalynde), we are much more connected now and we can impress people in future conversations with people in which we can say, “who Kristine? Of course I know her!”, which will imply that we are also plugged into her network. That will be worth something. . . .

  277. Russell:
    I tracked down an e-mail for Matt Workman. Turns out he recently moved from LA to Arkansas upon finishing school and now resides in some place called “Texarcana.â€? His wife’s name is Julie Curtis, I believe. Anyway, how should I get his e-mail address to you? Is it poor blog-iquette to post an unsuspecting person’s e-mail? I’m not sure what the protocol is. How about this, I’ll give you my e-mail, which is [email protected].
    If you want Matt’s e-mail address, e-mail me and I’ll send it to you.
    I hope you have fun reconnecting with him.

  278. Chad,

    You went to Poo-mont? Ha ha ha ha ha. Sorry, that one ha aha ahahahahaha never gets hahahaha ahahaha old. I’m sorry. Ahem. Hahaha. Ahem.

    What year did you graduate?

  279. “I was given a copy by my friend Lorie Stromberg (anyone know her?)”

    I had lunch with Lori & others at the Claremont conference yesterday. She seems to be doing fine.

  280. Lori Stromberg was one of the few people I really knew (from before she was married — I went to her Master’s Degree speech at BYU) at Sunstone last summer, and she was sitting next to Kristine at one of the sessions.

  281. Wow, Kristine, that is all pretty bizarre. How is your cousin Matt that is friends with the Florences? And did you say you grew up in Liz Dunn’s stake? I find that funny because I am now in Liz Dunn’s family’s stake– so we’re neighbors. Or I guess I’m neighbors with your grandparents. If they’re still there.

    I’m excited, by the sibling commutative property, for you to meet Davis on Friday. Looking forward to hearing all about it.

    Chad, so you’re a viking, huh? It’s weird to feel intense dislike suddenly for a person I’d previously respected. Okay, I admit, I have a tough time caring about my high school rivalry anymore. Still, nice to hear of another (former) Davis County denizen around here.

    Finally, John Fowles, I agree. The definition of being connected is simply being connected with people who are connected. Thus, if I have only one friend, but it’s D. or Rosalynde or Kristine, I’m part of an amazing network that spans the galaxies and beyond. That’s enough for me. Plus, let’s not forget I work at the law firm where Fred Gedicks is of counsel, so, um, maybe one day I’ll meet him.

    By the way, John, can you be any more specific about where you practice?

  282. Ryan, I didn’t grow up in SLC, but my grandparents have lived there since the mid-70s. Monument Park stake, can’t remember which ward. Where do you live?

    Do you know Matt? He’s in SLC now, too, teaching school. He has two very very very cute sons.

  283. Wow. This is amazing. Now I can see where people get their jokes about mormons marrying their cousins.

    This thread reminds me of a song I saw performed once at a ward variety show.

    It sounds funny, I know,
    But it really is so,
    Oh, I’m my own grandpa.
    I’m my own grandpa.
    I’m my own grandpa.
    It sounds funny, I know,
    But it really is so,
    Oh, I’m my own grandpa.

    Now many, many years ago, when I was twenty-three,
    I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be.
    This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red.
    My father fell in love with her, and soon they, too, were wed.

    This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life,
    My daughter was my mother, cause she was my father’s wife.
    To complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
    I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

    My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad,
    And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad.
    For if he was my uncle, then that also made him brother
    Of the widow’s grown-up daughter, who, of course, was my stepmother.

    Father’s wife then had a son who kept him on the run,
    And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter’s son.
    My wife is now my mother’s mother, and it makes me blue,
    Because, although she is my wife, she’s my grandmother, too.

    Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I’m her grandchild,
    And everytime I think of it, it nearly drives me wild,
    For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
    As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa.

    I’m my own grandpa.
    I’m my own grandpa.
    It sounds funny, I know,
    But it really is so,
    Oh, I’m my own grandpa.

  284. Julie Curtis?! The Julie Curtis?! She’s my best friend from elementary school!

    (I’m just kidding, getting a little punchdrunk now)

  285. Davis/Ryan Bell, did you guys know Nate Wahlstrom? I know he was a Davis Dart from ’91-’94, he was my second companion on the mish.

  287. Shannon,

    Yes, I remember San Diego well. And my wife and I still live in the Wilshire Ward. I wouldn’t have recognized your name, except that you mentioned you were married to Brian. How are you guys? Didn’t know you loitered in the Bloggernacle. Now that you’ve posted here a few times, I think we should get together and throw a mini-fiesta to put all these other Bloggernacle nerds to shame! By the way, I don’t keep in touch with the Lintons, but my wife and I just visited the Gowans last week.

    Shannon, I don’t think you and I have ever really spoken; it’s been more about Brian and I saying “hello” when we see each other. The four of us really should get together some time.

    Incidently, how do Brian and Steve E. know each other? Since Brian and I were in the same ward as BYU freshmen, I’m wondering if Steve E. dates from that era as well. I don’t think I know Steve E. outstide the Bloggernacle, but with a generic, boring name like “Steve” and “Evans,” it’s remotely possible, I suppose.

    Aaron B

  288. Davis:
    I have to admit I’d never heard Poo-mont before. Sounds about the level that would come from people who had to deal with brown and yellow as their colors ;-) What I don’t get is: Davis was the first high school in the county, they could have been any colors and mascot they wanted and they chose brown and yellow darts?!?

    Ryan:
    Hold onto that respect, brother. I don’t get much of it around here :)

  290. Hi Aaron,

    Yes, we should definitely get together with you and your wife. The east-coast bloggers may have diverse cheeses which I can’t pronounce at their gatherings, but we Angelinos have avacados and warm ocean breezes—even in the winter!

    To answer your question, Brian knew Steve Evans not from your freshman year, but from an English class at BYU after his mission. This is the same class where I met Brian, and where I also met Steve E., and where Steve E. met Rosalynde Frandsen.. .hence, the aforementioned “love tetrahedron.� The other night Brian tried crafting a message called “The true geometry of the love tetrahedron� to clarify everything, but then he never actually posted it. Seems I have brought enough humiliation upon us all through my own ramblings, so I guess he figured he needn’t expand.

    It should be noted, also, that Nate Oman was never part of the tetrahedron—the poor guy was just a victim of my plot to dominate the Helaman Halls lip sync contest during my Freshman year (93-94)…long before I met Brian, or Steve Evans, or Rosalynde.

    Also, I suspect we have a mutual friend in Andrew (and Amy) Sjoblom, who I believe you know from your Cambridge days. Andrew. Andrew. . .are you out there? Are you going to kill me for dragging your name into all this?!

  291. Kristine, I don’t know your cousin Matt. I was wondering who he is, and whether I”ve heard the Florences talk about him. I’m actually in the Bonneville stake, one below the Monument Park stake. But I’m only about a block and a half away from the Florences. We live on 900 S. a few blocks below foothill.

    John, that’s great to know. Peter Donaldson, who just joined the firm, is a friend of mine from when we were clerking at the federal court. I’m just down the road at Snow. I’ve always wondered if that’s the same Peter Donaldson who comments here once in a while, but gotten the idea that it is not.

    Chad, I’ve often heard that concern about Davis High’s colors and mascot. The answer is really simple. When Davis was first started, rather than have the choice of colors and mascots as the first in Davis County, it didn’t have any choices left, because it was being created as the last of a league of prestigious national prep schools. St. Albans and Andover had already taken the good ones, so they stuck Davis with the gold and brown Dart. Davis still enjoys those prestigious associations, which is why you’ll find so many Davis Darts in the upper echelons of power in this country (more Davis Darts have been members of the Skull and Bones than any other high school), but it has now deigned to follow the noble egalitarian impulses of its home city and lower itself to allow entry to the locals, and compete with everyday rabble like the Vikings and Braves.

    Rusty, the Wahlstrom family lives across a big grass field from my in-laws, so I spend a lot of time over there. I know the family very well, as the oldest son, Norm, is one of my closest friends. Nate was one younger than him, an intense, good-hearted, athletic guy. I see Nate occasionally in the backyard while we both chase our kids around.

  292. Ryan, it is the same Peter Donaldson who comments here–now he goes by simply Pete. Did I meet you recently at the FBA meeting?

  293. Wow, I had no idea. How cool.

    No, I have not ever attended an FBA meeting. However, I’m going to the CLE today on amendment three at the Marriot Crossroads convention center…any chance you’ll be there?

  296. Sorry to be elusive — I’ve been in Utah on job interviews, and I haven’t had regular access to a computer.

    395 Riverside Drive, at Riverside and 112th St. Apt 13G

    It’s really apartment 12AG, but no one understands this. The 13th floor is renamed 12A floor in our building. My apartment is G, on floor 12A, hence, 12AG. Don’t go to the 12th floor — they hate to get my visitors.

    7:00 PM

    P.S. I’ve bought fruit, breads, fresh beef and turkey slices, cherry pie, apple pie, cookies, and steamed shrimp, and soft drinks. Somebody’s bringing flourless cake, salad fixings, cheeses and kid’s snacks. Whatever else you all would like to bring would be fine with me. I might need a few shots of scotch by tonight.

  297. Hey Shannon,

    Funny you should mention Andrew and Amy Sjoblom, as I saw them just last night at a Halloween party over at Roy and Christine Silva’s. They brought your name up, one thing led to another, and we got to discussing all things Bloggernaclish. It’s a small world.

    I’ll be sure and give you and Brian a call one of these day’s soon, and the four of us (I include my wife) should get together. We should also make sure to take digital photos that we can post over at By Common Consent, so as to prove how much more fun our West Coast parties really are.

    Aaron B

  298. Hey Aaron B – I just moved to west L.A. – so there’s one more Angelino in the mix. And Shannon – we haven’t met yet but I recognized your name from the Westwood Music Makers roster – hope to meet soon!

  299. I hope I’m not butting in, but I would like to comment on a statement by D. Fletcher (Comment #177). “Robert Fowles’s grandfather’s name was Jacob Timothy Fowles, and he didn’t have a brother.”

    While it has no impact on John Fowles’ question, the fact is, Jacob Timothy Fowles did have a brother. His name is Henry Herman Fowles. He was born in 1889, but died in 1896, so it’s a safe bet Henry had no children.

Comments are closed.